guys, sry for not writing in russian ,but i need your oppinion. Friend sent me track f6f vs 109g2r6, pls watch it and tell me if this is a bug or nice flying or what. I just can't believe that 109 g2r6 can fly like this with full rudder but still having enough E to maneuver like this. Just rename txt to trk Tnx in advance
Having never flown the 109G2R6 and thus not having any expertise on how to handle that plane and the things it can / cannot do, all I can say is this: - zeybek is a much better T&B pilot than many people here give him credit for (I know that's not what you wanted to hear, but I've personally found that out the hard way on a number of occasions) ... if you're going to T&B with him, make sure you're in a plane that does it at least as well as the one he's sitting in - IMHO, the Hellcat isn't exactly one of the best rolling planes in Warbirds, especially if the rolling is done while also pulling G's ... coupled with the 109's astonishing ability to bleed E pretty much at the drop of a hat (*), that means I can totally see how a 109 could end up on a Hellcat's tail in a fight like this one by making it overshoot, as happened in this track -fuel state(!!) I guess we'd be much wiser if zeybek could also post his track ... P.S. (*) I'm assuming that the 109G2R6 is no different in this respect than the vanilla 109G2. P.S. #2: Towards the beginning of the track, when both guys started rolling & turning like mad, zeybek almost snapped into a spin IMO, so that indicates that even though the 109 bested the Hellcat in this fight, it didn't do it effortlessly
Imho noth strange, F6f pilot had it's chanse while it had speed, and he was close enough to win. After they lost speed F6f had no any vital advantage. 109g2 has, a bit better roll, and better acceleration/breaking dynamic even if it's R6, also important that it was G2, not G6. And main thing, imho, is that zeybek used more agressive manevers and jessej began to follow his movements, instead of leading the fight. And zeybek surely turned in the way optimal (as optimal as he could at lest) for 109g2/R6, not for f6f .
I know that zeybek can fly nicely,especially since this model of plane is his favourite ride. I noticed that little shaking in the beginning of track, but what bothers me the most is end of track. The way i see it ,this manuvering could be done only if he used full rudder,but bothering thing is UP-DWN movement. I believe in 109 g2 ,or f4, but g2r6 should be less agile, so less that german pilots used to avoid it. Since it was first his fight that sortie, at f3, he took off at f2 imo, and knowing him, i bet he had more than 50% of fuel. You all know how 20% of fuel can limit plane's performance, not to mention 2x20 mm gondolas under wings. I flew this plane ,yes Gil is right,it is more agile than g6r6, but it is not Fm2 to pull this kind of manuver IMO. YEs, hellcat is cow sometimes, but notice that little shaking in 109's first manuver...After that pls watch end of track and how far he slided, how precise he got right on f6f's 6. Personally i don't think this was cheat but 109g2r6 is not p38 to have such powerful rudder IMO. Why to compare rolling abilities, when it is obvious that this was rudder thing? Not to mention first 20mm blowing hellcats stab or elevator couldnt see clearly... I know that 20mm single bullet can blow off even p47's whole vertical , but for that is needed to have speed at about 400-450mph. I don't know, i'm still confused by ending of this track,sliding,going up-dwn in such cow as 109 r6 is....I mean why Biber who is IMO much better pilot than zeybek , always flying g2??? Or let's say Kopi...Why Kopi so much likes 109 f4 ?
So Zeybek is one of the best pillot at Wb ,i think you never suprized Zeybek mostly doing PK to his enemies and nobody never escape from his range. he is one of the most dangerous pillot at WB and we call him "serial killer" or somebody say "SAW". i suggest never meet with him air because until when you understand what happend he finish your work dım dım dım dım dım !!!!!!
1-st, 109's flaps are very useful in such manevers, so when speed lost it's really not worse then F6F, second thing, i think, is jessej's mistake. That's just my little imho: 1-st mistake was to follow zeybek's tail instead of turning ahead, predicting his menevers, so he didn't used out all f6f manevrability in the beginning. Second was that left roll, that seem the worst turn for F6F, it shows very strong tendency to stull on up-giong part of manevr. After short compare seems that 109g2/r6 with 1-st pos flaps does it much better. And last was about 2 seconds of straight flight before 1-st hit.
Smrnf my special friend... For u i have track with zeybek running to red acks,as he said, because there were 2 reds and he alone Gil do not compare 2 pilots 2 planes. Try to watch only 109. I think ur crazy%) , no 109 is such manuverable like f4, no 109 should be such manuverable..But then again ur gold Serious now , do u know that real la5 could be on 109s 6 after 4-8 turns? Can u do it on FH? Can u make our la5 turning with 109? Cmon 109 should not be zeke! This for me looked like he had button for movement, so press press press press and he is right on ur 6 I did not analyze fight, i was just watching his actions.... then again from his angle probably looked different.. Still,i must ask u to take light 190 2x20 only, fight, then take 2x20 more, basic, and fight . I mean do u know weight of 2x20 gondolas plus bullets?
I wanted to post Gil's track for everyone to see what cheater he is, but its 75kb and wb allows only 73.
Cut a bit ) About f6f - 109g2/r6, i just wanted to say that, g2/R6 is surely cow, but in that way, they used planes in "2nd part" of fight, f6f is much more cow, imho. (may be thats because i'm bad f6f pilot). And about 109g2 turning ability there are different oppinions. Once i met a post from official message about 1-st experiense of using La5 vs 109g2 and 190A4 by soviet army. "The plane worse or equal in horisontal and vertical turns and can't effectively provide offencive fight vs last 109/190". Smth like that was said. Really scary were La5fn and La7, that's why last one is awfully cut here, but if not, it were cheat below 3-4k ). (and 1-st appears about 4-5 months later). Also there are many examples of how soviet ace's remember duels 109g2 vs yak9, and tell that in skillfull hands basic 109 could be challenge even for light and agile yak. So noth strange that R6 looks not bad near big and heavy F6F.
Real problem in wb imo is not existing 3rd view. So we can not see actually 2 planes. Very hard to be objective if watching from plane..I liked this track because it was nice fight, and gil was light,very light without even mgs..But if i ever see basic 190 working like this, i would sure think about bugs..
Luke use the rudder......... In those turns it's all about the rudder, that slide you see............all rudder. The f6f's rudder is porked just like all f4u's and bf110's are. There is no way for that poor f6f to hang in a rolling fight like that, he needed to start turning in the vert(nose up/nose down/nose up/nose down)......also did i mention that the elevators on the f6f's and f4u's are porked too?...........nothing like having to mash on your "k" key in the middle of the fight just to be able to pull up...............in FH all the 109's feel like they have these huge paddle rudders that can shift the nose of the plane 30 degrees to each side............that is a 60 degree range of motion just by twisting your stick(if thats the type of stick you have).......so picture a 109 flying straight and shifting it's nose 30 degrees to the right but still flying straight...........it would look like a slide.........rudder rudder rudder........ Oh and zeybek is pretty good but he is not the unstopabble force his squadies make him out to be......here's a hint when he's making those crazy fast turns, he has cut his throttle.......so let him turn turn turn....watch for him to get lower than you then just zoom out of the fight and make him fight on your terms.........(well if you have the right plane you can zoom out)
TNX for reply. Agree about rudder, and probably fight looked totally different from his angle, as always in wb. We all who fly p38 know how much is cutting throttle dangerous especially if u do it in 190...P38 can slow dwn too very fast,but in some planes like la5 and if u r not locked on his six before he cuts throttle,it it is very dangerous...I have so good reflexes that i always cut throttle too,but after 3 sec, then i do mistake and go high like i have so much E over con
