salut all! for the effective flames about FM, i guess we should establish real-life etalons for our aircrafts. so, i'd name what developers are modelling and which versions have undecided prototypes. anyways, any commentaries are welcomed here we go: Bf 109 E-4 with MG FF/Minengeschoß, with /B option, with DB 601 A-1 (which ATA boost?) Bf 109 F-2 with MG 151/15, with /B option, with DB 601 N (which ATA boost?) Bf 109 F-4 with MG 151/20, with /B option, with DB 601 E (1.30ATA) Bf 109 G-2 with /R1 and /R6 options, with DB 605 A-1 (1.30ATA) Bf 109 G-6 with /R1, /R2 and /R6 options, without /U4 (because MK 108 appeared in sufficient masses in mid-1944), with DB 605 A-1 (1.30ATA, because 1.42 allowed in beginning of 1944) Bf 109 G-14 with /U4, /R1, /R2, /R4, /R6 options, undecided version of DB 605, but 1.42ATA. here we must decide whether to model high altitude DB 605 AS, low-altitude DB 605 AM with MW-50 or DB 605 A-1 with GM-1 injection. Bf 109 K-4 with rockets and bombs (unknown Rustsätze numbers, probably unrealistic), with DB 605 DB 1.80ATA (because DB 605 DC 1.98 probably appeared later) Fw 190 A-3 with /U8 option, with BMW 801 Dg 1.30ATA Fw 190 A-4 with /U8 option, with BMW 801 D-2 1.42ATA Fw 190 A-6 with /R2 and /R6 options, with Fw G-3 variant, with BMW 801 D-2 1.42ATA Fw 190 A-8 with /R2 and /R6 options, with Fw 190 G-8 variant, with BMW 801 D-2 1.65ATA (unknown GM-1 presence) Fw 190 D-9 with rockets and bombs (unknown Rustsätze numbers, probably unrealistic), with Jumo 213 A-1 (unknown ATA) Spitfire Ia with Merlin III +9PSI military, +12PSI wep Spitfire IIa with Merlin XII +9PSI military, +12PSI wep Spitfire Vb with Merlin 45? +9PSi mil +12PSI wep, with bombs Spitfire Vc with Merlin 55? +9PSI/+16PSI Spitfire IXc with Merlin 61 +12PSI/+15PSI Spitfire LF IXc with Merlin 66 +12PSI/+18PSI Spitfire XIVe with Griffon 65 +?PSI/+21PSI Hurricane IA with Merlin III +9PSI military, +12PSI wep Hurricane II with Merlin XX unknown boost Typhoon IB series 3 with Sabre II unknown boost Tempest V series 2 with Sabre II(IIa? IIb) unknown boost Yak-1 series 20 with M-105PA 910/950mmHg Yak-7B series 22 with M-105PF 1050mmHg (no limits for WEP, so said there is no military mode) Yak-9 with M-105PF 1050mmHg (no limits for WEP, so said there is no military mode) Yak-3 series 16 with M-105PF2 ?/1100mmHg LaGG-3 series 1 (without 20mm ShVAK), 4, 8 (light), 8 (with 23mm VYa), 11 (bomber) with M-105PA 910/950mmHg La-5 with M-82 950/1140mmHg La-5F with M-82F 1140mmHg unlimited, without military mode La-5FN with M-82FN(ASh-82FN) 1000/1200mmHg La-7 production 1944 with M-82FN(ASh-82FN) 1000/1200mmHg you can propose other etalons for discussion or fill unknown lacunes. other aeroplanes will be discussed below
btw, folks. according to spitfireperformance.com current Fw 190 A-3, Fw 190 A-4, and Fw 190 A-6 have 40km/h surplus to historical top speed at 2000-3000m altitudes. since community is somehow passive about flight models, i suggest to schedule 40km/h fix to 1.672, not 1.70.
I hope you're working on making the gold side more playable also, 'cause if not, and you cut 190's by 40km/h... well, I see another flame war coming
I don't see in which way gold side is somehow 'unplayable'. I hear what people are saying, but I don't see it.
Well you should know I'm not into the "gold this red that" whining type, but the fact is that early war golds are practically dead meat, tactically speaking. 50kg bombs miss like it's skit shooting 101 - from 2k alt you can drop 3 bombs from a properly aligned norden and miss an ack, wtf? Reds have rockets so no problem there. This leads to another problem - bufs. Reds get TBF's, Pe-2 (yeah i know exec, this is a fighter blah blah) both with laser ottos and they're both available from small fields. What do golds have from small fields? ju87, b5n, d3a, all with ottos not being able to kill a fly and certainly not in the same league as the red ones mentioned. A b5n with the biggest 9x50kg load isn't able to close a small field on it's own (tbf and pe2 both can), unless you hit every bomb dead on and get some luck with that. Did I mention that's not so easy to do? Add the fact that gold cv's carry zekes and 109T's only and you've got yourself a pretty grim scenario. Oh did I forget to mention that now, when the Li-2 got 12mm otto it's being used as a gunship of death? Yeah Ju-52 has 12mm otto also, plus 2x7mm, but they're not half as deadly, 'cause they're not turrets, like the Li-2 has. All this without even getting into the shvak being clearly too powerful, and the russian wooden planes obviously too well armoured. They'll say that it's historical accuracy they're after, so they should DModel their airplanes according to the historical materials they were made of: plywood, old rags and an occasional metal plate from a german tank. We're getting in too deep with this historical accuracy thingie. If we get it spot on, the goldies will have no chance of winning any war, exactly the way it went on in RL. That's not how a GAME should look like. Fine if it was only fighter-fighter combat, but it's not. And that's what still keeps people here, if they want air2air they can go to sturmovik. I can tell you from personal experience, that early war on the gold side makes you want to puke. It's not pleasant, it's boring, it's tiring and mostly hopeless. Well enough said from me, I encourage you ant to try being gold next ToD. I know it's harder for you to understand, 'cause this is mostly about things you don't really participate in: early war and air2ground combat, but I assure you, things are not well on the golden front.
I was gold last TOD and I didn't find it one bit harder than flying red. In fact I found it easier, though I admittedly didn't do any ground pounding.
it's not about flying, I told you it could go as air2air with no problems it's the field capping, buffing, team playing that's lacking gameplay
I remember someone or many someones talking about spit being some kind of uber.. that was like 1 year or so ago... Now i think i read its 190 uber Good, just fuck that spitfire.com thing and read both sides. As far as i know, winners make history, and in the end of war Brits, russians, and americans took german technology and brought it to their homelands. Just be sure u read everything before changing speeds, because mb u could read about dora and its dive and FIRST change its dive performance, and zeke without one wing, and jeeps stuck in the mud, and pk on p38 , vertical loss bug on p47, give some armor to german fighter so they could encounter those uber russian thingies... And yes browse the net for data about range of 30mm. Then u come and cut 190 everything it has left after u boosted those tiffies.. P.s. and when in arena 10 ppl become usual roster, be brave and leave the admin function.And stop with that flame accusations, because anger can only be reaction to something, and i never met angry person without any reason.
Maybe the thing to do is bring the red planes up to a more real level of performance and not curb the gold planes so drastically? You must try to understand all those months/years of red protesting the invulnerability, E retention and fire power of the Bf110, when in RL it was far from "uber". Only lately did we find out (reds anyway) about the cheat 30mm tail gunner. So , sure un-pork the 190, but un-pork the rest of the Allied planes too then. maybe we all need to fly the UFO once in a while
mby you did this was a well know bug discovered and corrected a long time ago in a previous version it came back with the new FHL and they corrected it almost right away
>50kg bombs miss like it's skit shooting 101 - from 2k alt you can drop 3 bombs from a properly aligned norden and miss an ack, wtf? Reds have rockets so no problem there. our mistake to make bombs less precise before industry fully programmed. said so. will fix in 1.672. >A b5n with the biggest 9x50kg three additional bombs granted. complain to Nakajima Hikoki Kabushiki Kaisha >Oh did I forget to mention that now, when the Li-2 got 12mm otto it's being used as a gunship of death? tracks pls >I can tell you from personal experience, that early war on the gold side makes you want to puke. It's not pleasant, it's boring, it's tiring and mostly hopeless. it's about bf 110 c fighter (heavy, but with enough salvo to defend themselves) with 2x500kg while reds should bring at least db-3 for that calibre or sbd with 1 (one) such bomb? yup, i remember when our strafing squad until 1942 could not strafe fields when being reds. pe-2's forward firing ub in no match for any fighter, especially bf 110
damn. it's off topic. we are going to make fw 190 a-3 according to http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/fw190/fw190a3.html meaning summer 1942 (and disregarding turkish Fw 190 Aa-3) unless someone point us another realistic performance chart.
I'm complaining to you about limiting ju88 to only mid and big fields, instead of the previous solution: ju88A-1 available from small fields, next versions only from mid and big. It was a good compromise and helped balance the early war bomber situation. It is not balanced now. Ok it is more historic, but as I said earlier, if we get this 100% historic then goldies are FUBAR, that's not the way to go. Quite predictably, I don't have it. But I've had a li2 roll just as a gunship several times already. Wasn't it deadly enough with 7mm turret? IMHO it was, and the change to 12mm, while again historic (Was it? Were there no Li-2 versions with 7mm turrets?) is again a step in the wrong direction. Li2 is already faster, climbs better, has dual doors and the ability to ditch faster than ju52. Now you've given it a better otto, 'cause it can fire in all directions, it's 12mm and still it kept the same laser accuracy of the 7mm otto. This should be corrected back to 7mm. Dunno what the proposed DC3 will bring to the equation, mby we should wait and see, but as it is now, it's wrong. The other option would be to rework ottos, restricting their accuracy. Then the 12mm could stay. But that's the problem of many other bufs, TBF and Pe-2 included. Agreed, I did not take fighters into account, but my point is different. Suppose you want to close a small field, you take off from a small field and you've got only 2 players to do it. Red guys take TBF or Pe2(a bit later in RPS) and a Li-2 and close the small even if some bombs miss. The other advantage being the killer ottos of both TBF/Pe2 and Li2 that will most likely kill any cons trying to stop them. Gold scenario: B5N + ju52. 9x50 bombs most likely will not close the field. Mby after improving the 50kg's something will change here. B5n's otto is next to useless. Do you see the disbalance here? Pe-2's rear firing otto is more than a match for most fighters. Taken that into account, the front firing weapons were never a part of any complain about pe-2's. Sorry for OT, you can move this wherever you think is suitable .
exec, when did you last fly in the arena as a gold?; what al says is spot on, if you flew as gold a few times you would see it all for yourself. Li has become deadly, especially when used with tweaked otto codes, totally unrealistic. No I haven't got links to back up my claims but I've flown here for years and 190 used to be an enjoyable plane to fly...not anymore, its had it's balls taken away. Early war on gold side is now such a disaster its honestly not worth flying and I usually don't. Al summed it up superbly ... Now I think you guys have done a great job with FH, so much better that iEN I used to fly and I don't wish to moan, BUT, the roster speaks for itself. Lucky to see 20 flyers in arena these days, I remember 50 - 100 when I first came here. It can't be a coincidence that there seems to be quiet a few flyers airing their veiws over the current arena environment and to me it seems you are bringing in so called RL settings at the cost of FH playability and fun and at the end of the day why do people come to the forum?... to have fun, not to pretend they are flying in an exact replica of a WWII aircraft. Sry OT too, but I wanted to back up what al said.
Huh? 190 is a killing machine! What are you talking about, mate?? Some 190 variants need fixing, but to say flying them is no no longer fun is stretching it a bit.
i remember 50-100 players too. most of them quit because of: A)DM B)arena rules C)into real life D)moved to maddox and all they left long before i got server in my hands (this summer). but whatever new developers try to make, there is always some loud personage protesting against that. what should i do? personally i going to try to: A)reprogram DM B)implement new rules to remove kamikaze style and make squad commanders interested in seeking and involving of new players C)to convince FM developers to fix obvious FM bugs why am i slow? just because my fucking hdd is buggy and i cannot start reverse engineering of aike's server code and to start to modify it accordingly right now. going to buy a new hdd in a month, then begin programming. what i got now? i named myself as a responsible for game development and being cursed by almost all and every forum member for dissatisfaction for 5 previous years, for fixing unreal bf 110, and for my current communication with community. so? i'm upset because we cannot shift 5 years stagnation of the game fast enough and cannot shift pessimism/criticism/sarcasm* of players. *p.s.sarcasm? i'm not upset about sarcasm of some polish players. long history of hatred to russians make them to pour derision to every developers move in any direction.
What exactly will you change in 190 a3? From those docs i figure it should be faster at deck a bit ( i think its 530 km/h now in that source its 540 km/h)
well as you're not russian, this point does not affect you, does it? ^ | | | rhetorical question not every move, not every direction you being the only active developer person on the forum get your ass kicked for everything, that's your curse like mine is to stand in every time someone has something against 302nd... live with it
