Why Americans don't like jazz

Discussion in 'Warbirds International' started by Fucketeer, Mar 6, 2007.

  1. Fucketeer

    Fucketeer Banned

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    One person's take on American non-acceptance of Jazz



    -I think the original writer is pretty darn observant.

    -I wish the writer had made it less U.S./Japan.

    -Anyone who thinks this is really about jazz is missing the point entirely.

    It's about how music, in and of itself, isn't appreciated much anymore.

    The headline is, on one hand, a poor choice because it singles out jazz and therefore is bound to alienate jazz fans right off the bat. On the other hand, it's an eye-catching headline.

    But he's really singling out jazz (unfairly, in my book, but that's another opinion) as a vehicle for a addressing his main thoughts.

    What are the main thoughts, IMO? When you read the article, the author spends a lot of time talking about things that aren't specific to jazz at all:

    Songs with lyrics vs. instrumentals
    Visuality vs. abstraction
    Dominance of thought vs. just freaking listening
    Need for musical education

    In fact, at the end, the author does broaden the argument totally (as he's been doing the whole time) by saying, "This problem extends far beyond the American disinterest for Jazz; it is a problem for music in general."

    The authors biggest mistake, in my opinion, is opposing the U.S. and Japanese cultures. My view has always been that "ignorant comes in all shapes" -- so to attach his generalizations to Japanese, Americans, or Martians doesn't make any sense to me.

    At the same time, just because the author makes that mistake in his writing, doesn't mean we need to make the same mistake in our reading.

    What do you think?
     
  2. rudeboy

    rudeboy Well-Known Member

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    Fuck. I can't give a green rep thingie. I get some crap from The Robot.

    Fucketeer:
    Hear hear!!!
    Consider this a green rep thingie.
     
    1 person likes this.
  3. Eddiev

    Eddiev Well-Known Member

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    That's all... Nice thread Fucke ;)
     
  4. RolandGarros

    RolandGarros Well-Known Member

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    jazz was a phenomenon like punk rock
    it is dead
    the new generations of juliard bred experten sux
    so like classical, almost all of the enthusiasts a few of the old masters & that is what they enjoy
    is that what that big thing said?
    tl;dr
     
  5. tigrou

    tigrou Well-Known Member

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  6. Rainer

    Rainer Well-Known Member

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    LMAO
     
  7. Uncles

    Uncles Well-Known Member

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    Nice clip! Saw him play :)

    I grew up down the street from the McPartlands. Cool, I found this cool old vid of Jimmy. His wife Marian still has a national show here on NPR.

    Listening to them made me appreciate jazz -- hearing lots of hushed high hats on my pops records did not :)

    Saw Mr. Farlow play also, after I moved here :)
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2007
  8. Fucketeer

    Fucketeer Banned

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    Education is a part of it, but I've met a lot of classically and jazz trained musicians who don't want to dig in deeply to find anything else than mainstream pop. It's probably how it always was.
     
  9. looseleaf

    looseleaf Well-Known Member

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    If this is a quotation, please state the name of the person and when this was printed.


    With regards to what is said, I think this person is way off base!

    What does he/she mean by that statement..???

    WHERE in America is jazz "not accepted" ?

    Count the number of records pressed, recordings sold in America of jazz and that should prove this guy is smoking crack and/or has not a clue of what he/she is saying.

    Certainly jazz is not "main stream" American "white bread" media now, but like what Andy Worhol said; "...in the future everyone in America will be famous for 15 minutes..." . Well...unfortunately that future is now... The Big Machine is churning faster than ever and there are now so many "one hit wonders" in the charts today , who can keep-up....????

    There will always be "the flash in the pan" musicians but the classics will always endure and sooner or later there is always a return to "what's real" to the basics.

    Jazz is and always will be within us and in the current music of the day.

    Unless this peson is speaking about jazz in the begining when it was nearly prohibitied and "decent white people" in America turned it down...say in the 20's, 30's..... well there is that point, BUT....

    ...that's the way it is for many forms of "the new"... One case : just think about the tango.... banned by the Church and gentry of Argentina for years .... it came to France in the late 20's 30's and became a great success (even jazz made that same euro trek about the same time, even earlier...)

    Only after returning from France was it accepted by main stream Argentina...

    There should be more music study in American schools, I agree.

    There will always be fads.
     
  10. biles

    biles Well-Known Member

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    http://www.dyske.com/index.php?view_id=778
    Worth looking through. The guy is thoughtful and articulate.

    He didn't define comparative parameters. He didn't state what he meant very well. He didn't 'work it out.' very well [I understand that. I do it ALL the time, hence my many afterthought, retrospect [deleted]s]

    He could have said something in his opening postulation like:
    "Jazz doesn't sell as much as pop in the USA. And why is that?"

    Not sure what he meant either. I believe he started writing and was thinking 'on the fly.'
    Bluegrass isn't a big seller. Depending on where you are, there is a chance you will find very little bluegrass or plenty.
    Pibroch music isn't a big seller.
    Go on down to the music store and look for their 'pibroch music' category.
    This guy is HUGE, but many haven't bought his recordings.
    This stuff sells in reams. Makes plenty of money. Shows up on the 'top ten' all the time. Yet it is crap. I won't define crap. If I had to define crap, I would have to retract what I just postulated or write a book.
    What is 'accepted?' what is not accepted?
    The most accepted music on earth is, arguably, Indian Classical. It certainly isn't well represented in America's record stores or on The Idiot Box or on the radio. How on earth could a person claim that Indian Classical isn't accepted? By what criteria?
    Is this guy just defining the word 'accept?' Is he saying, obliquely, that accepted is what reamains after the rest is excepted. He isn't scientific. he is giving opinion. A few salient points stand out. I liked the article, but it wasn't scholarly.


    [a mere] 3% is a HUGE amount when we are talking about market share in the USA!!!!
    Jeez, the guy is using marketing bafflegab.

    There are french fries and there are
    Deep fried shoestring potatoes [yum]
    Same fuckin things. But, as we have all been told, the word french is [was] sexy and the words fried and potatoes aren't sexy.
    SURVEY SAYS!!!!!
    Question, can one find French Fries in France? I haven't been there. Are they common and as loved as they are here?

    White Bread. YECCCH!
    :dura:

    Jazz:
    It's lack would be noticed, believe me. I could not imagine going to the food store and hearing Motley Cru. It would make me crazy in a few minutes and I would flee the supermarket and look around for another, one that either has NO music piped into it, or one that has music I don't even notice. Jazz is kind of neat that way. It blends so well. It isn't suitable for all occasions, but it is entirely suited to many we could easily think of. Music doesn't make a mood, it compliments it. Quiet, happy times often require quiet, happy music.
    Jazz can fill that need. But how many people want to go see it? Many who pay good money to see a jazz performance have already been through the pop grinder and have tired and want to relax.
    I know a couple who became addicted to Country Swing. They say it is happy, you can dance to it and the words to the songs can ALWAYS be understood and you can wear blue jeans and a pair of nice boots to the dance hall. Pretty good reasons to enjoy Country Swing, I think [that said, I hate country swing, it makes me want to fight LOL. Each to his own]

    Yep. It is everywhere and is more appreciated than many would say. A lot of what people think is because of The Feed. It is pretty hard to come up with New Thought and use New Arguments to support.

     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2007
  11. looseleaf

    looseleaf Well-Known Member

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    Good points.....
     
  12. looseleaf

    looseleaf Well-Known Member

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    Oh , you mean like Wynton Marsalis?


    http://www.wyntonmarsalis.net
     
  13. Fucketeer

    Fucketeer Banned

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  14. RolandGarros

    RolandGarros Well-Known Member

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    quick - no looking at the internet for help - name a piece of his music
     
  15. Fucketeer

    Fucketeer Banned

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    Nicely put, but as I stated above, anyone who thinks it's really about jazz is missing the point. It's about people again, their habits, their personality.
    Of course I can't and don't expect people to "get" jazz and music in general - not lyrics; music! (by which I mean melody, chords, chord changes, song structures, etc.), but it's interesting that how many of them just don't hear it.
     
  16. Fucketeer

    Fucketeer Banned

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    Good points. The fact that they can sell lame music to masses like a product demonstrates that only a small amount of people are actually able to hear and comprehend music.
     
  17. rgreat

    rgreat FH Developer

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    Not a jazz.
    But i think i want to add some nice aqustic guitar from Russia.
    (Especially i like part at 5+ min)

    Sergey Kalugin - Story of the king Ondatra about the fishing on Friday.
    Not a Britney. :D

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ft3y5o7TFyc
    Song is ~8 min.

    Too bad you can't understand words, except maybe Uncles.
    Lyrics are very good.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2007
  18. Fucketeer

    Fucketeer Banned

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    Awesome fingerstyle playing. He got perfect time. Song has kind of a baroque vibe to it, is it his own composition? I didn't understand the words but he looked and sounded like a great storyteller.
     
  19. rgreat

    rgreat FH Developer

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    Yes, it is his own song.
    And yes, its a great story.
    He managed to produce very strong and complicated images.
    His skill with words is even better then with instrument.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2007
  20. Uncles

    Uncles Well-Known Member

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    That rules, thanks. As they say in the forum, WTG, rgreat :) I gotta find his stuff and download it. Jeez, that dude can play. If you have links to more like that, please send them. Lots of time non-Russians think that that guitarists there are limited to singing around campfires at some da4a escape, where some guy gets drunk and remembers the chords to Kombat by Liube (which sounds like me, lol).

    But BTW, I still love Vys0tskii :) He is so simple, so pure, so real.

    Thanks