Ukraine

Discussion in 'Warbirds General Discussion' started by vasco, Feb 21, 2022.

  1. jfm

    jfm Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2003
    Messages:
    848
    If Ukraine is weak enough....
    We have to agree. It's do not matter who is right or who is wrong. Just stronger rapes weaker.
     
  2. miixch

    miixch Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2001
    Messages:
    915
    Location:
    Poznan, Poland
    btw ... how is it? if you have a problem with everyone, and everyone has problem with you, then everyone is wrong or is there something wrong with you?
     
  3. mcgru-

    mcgru- Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2000
    Messages:
    61,454
    Location:
    Tomsk, Russia
    "There was a huge pressure on Yeltsyn from Clinton and "west" to stop war and give Chechnya full independence."

    and as with Chechnya in 1996, as with Kosovo in 2000th - "all western world" was for an independence of parts from the center!
    why with Crimea and Donbass in 2014 it was against such independence???

    why, -frog-?
    why, miixch?
     
  4. mcgru-

    mcgru- Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2000
    Messages:
    61,454
    Location:
    Tomsk, Russia
    please, note a smaaaaall difference: Russia was stronger than Ukraine in 2014 , but it hasnt raped "weaker ukraine" then.
    what was a reason to be the Russia 'much softer' to new nazi-government ?
     
  5. mcgru-

    mcgru- Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2000
    Messages:
    61,454
    Location:
    Tomsk, Russia
    we have no problems with ~100 countries of 150.
    we have problems only with anglo-saxon's inheritances: USA, GB and NATO (and their EU-sattelites). That's all! (ah, Japan too).

    so you are wrong with term "everyone".
     
  6. mcgru-

    mcgru- Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2000
    Messages:
    61,454
    Location:
    Tomsk, Russia
    so what do you think on
    "1999: Serbia wanted to return control on Kosovo, NATO attacked Serbia to stop Serbia's attack on Kosovo.
    2022: Ukraine wanted to return control on Donbass, Russia attacked Ukraine to stop Ukraine's attack on Donbass (and change government)."
    ?

    why it is OK to bomb Serbia in 1999, but not OK to de-nazify Ukraine in 2022?

    frog? miixch? please answer too
     
  7. jfm

    jfm Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2003
    Messages:
    848
    It similiar. Probably big mistake of NATO back then, and big mistake of Russia now.


    word, nobody understand it, just add it to enemy, to justify yourself.
     
  8. -Shai-

    -Shai- Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2000
    Messages:
    41,798
    Location:
    РФ
  9. mcgru-

    mcgru- Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2000
    Messages:
    61,454
    Location:
    Tomsk, Russia
    thank you for your UNDERSTANDING!
    (i'm still waiting for frog's and miixch's estimation)

    yes, that was both BAD decisions, but 2 moments:
    1. for Putin, it was a choice between bad and worse decision (do not attack banderlogs in Kiev but then letting them attack Donetsk with thousands on non-combatant deaths), so he has chosen a bad one.
    Probably the same choice was for NATO - bad and worse - between attack Belgrad and citizens death in Kosovo.
    2. no consequences for NATO on bombing Serbia and full punishment for Russia for demilitarisation of Kiev - it is not fair.
    How the world should describe this difference on estimation of two same actions?
     
  10. miixch

    miixch Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2001
    Messages:
    915
    Location:
    Poznan, Poland
    I Agree
    ... and attacking defenseless civilians with bombs is wrong in any situation. We see in TV RIGHT NOW housing estates and the city center of Kharkiv are bombed.
    I wonder if you russian guys has access to these information? I'm curious, please answer.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2022
  11. mcgru-

    mcgru- Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2000
    Messages:
    61,454
    Location:
    Tomsk, Russia
    Thank you for reply, i'm glad we have same attitude on it, but please i need the development of thought - if both attacks (on Belgrad/Beograd and on Kiev) are wrong, then WHY such a difference between consequences - punishment of Russia and no punishment on NATO?

    btw, main target for NATO in Serbia was not a civilians, but military and production facilities. isnt it?
    but main target for Russia in Ukraine is only military facilities, strictly not the production, and farover, not the civilians.

    a) have you seen how ukraine rocket hitted multi-floor building in Kiev (Obolon)?
    b) main condition of russian invasion - not to force attacks (destroying buildings) on cities, it is opposite to banderlogs decision on bombing Donetsk.
    but i've seen Grad's explosions in some civilian places in Kharkov.
    also i've seen that A LOT of ukrainian military heavy weaponry had been placed inside civilian places like childhood schools etc - thus they defense themselves at cost of civilians. and they open fire from behind the civilians!
    if you have approved videos on who bombed Kharkov's center - please give it to us.
     
  12. miixch

    miixch Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2001
    Messages:
    915
    Location:
    Poznan, Poland
    rocket was lunched by ukrainian? they hitted their own building?
     
  13. Archer

    Archer Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 1999
    Messages:
    7,135
    Location:
    Prague
    That was an anti-aircraft rocket, probably S-300. Rocket has lost control... There are some more pictures on the internet showing full trajectory (smoke trail) from start to hit.
     
    mcgru- likes this.
  14. Archer

    Archer Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 1999
    Messages:
    7,135
    Location:
    Prague
  15. -frog-

    -frog- Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2003
    Messages:
    5,303
    Delusions, part XXX
    Grad shelling of Kharkiv also work of Ukrainians?

    You have blood of the innocent on your hands.
    Even Switzerland decided to abandon their 200 years of neutrality to support Ukraine with sanctions against Russia.
    The sole friends you're left with, worldwide, are Chinese communists and that kolhoz manager from Belarus.
     
    vasco likes this.
  16. Archer

    Archer Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 1999
    Messages:
    7,135
    Location:
    Prague
    I have no confirmed information about it. UA says it's RU, RU says it's UA...

    But the "Smerch" (or Uragan) rocket on the main square of Charkov is probably UA. It was fired from the place under UA control.
    And, AFAIK, RU does not use "Smerch" (yet) in UA.

    upload_2022-3-1_10-43-12.jpeg

    upload_2022-3-1_10-43-19.jpeg
     
    mcgru- likes this.
  17. -frog-

    -frog- Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2003
    Messages:
    5,303
    Things that are now a thing of the past for Russians:
    Apple Pay payments, their Visa and MasterCard debit and credit cards (these are still good for scraping the ice from your windshield if you forgot your scraper though - no need to throw them out yet).
     
    miixch likes this.
  18. -Shai-

    -Shai- Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2000
    Messages:
    41,798
    Location:
    РФ
  19. -Shai-

    -Shai- Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2000
    Messages:
    41,798
    Location:
    РФ
    пиздеж. всё работает
    и Виза и Мастеркард

    Эппл говно. Samsung Pay - rulezzz
     
  20. mcgru-

    mcgru- Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2000
    Messages:
    61,454
    Location:
    Tomsk, Russia
    yes, VSU affirmed that.