The only thing I hate on FH...

I didnЄt ment to flame. I am not anti-russian or something like that, but sometimes Boroda expresses his views in a .. eh .. "provocative" way

 

ahh a man who likes good music
give eddie moneys jelousy on his first album "two tickets to paradise" a listen too ;-)

so true war sucks, but warbirds, now thats another story.

 

In which way Boroda was "provocative" btw?

 

I am provocative, Badger

Especially when I am drunk Sorry for that crap i posted about Korean war.

But speaking about WWII - I have to say that what there are no excuses for nazi ideology, that lead to that war. Excuses are excuses, but nazies openly stated that their goal is to phisically eliminate Slavs. Which they started to do quite efficiently.

Vampire, sorry to say this, but my Grand Uncle was captured by Germans in 1942 near Kharkov. He managed to run away from concentration camp, and, after wandering in the forests for a month or two just came to some farm and said that he is a "gast-arbeiter" (sp?). That's how he survived...

He passed away exactly one month ago... He was 93.

"Bblond Knight" is an outstanding piece of cold-war propaganda. It's a shame that it will probably remain the main source about that great airman.

JFYI: the daily ration in sieged Leningrad was 125g (one hundreed and twenty five gramms) of bread. Sometimes I take it too personally. I was born in Leningrad and knew many people who survived "blokada".

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With respect,
Pavel Pavlov,
wb:boroda
Commissar 25th IAP VVS

 

And all this started with a complain about gunnery (check beggining of the topic).

As exec said, sufering is not objective and can't be discussed. We all know many sufered (from all sides) in this bloody war, and that all sides had their war crimes.
I'm not telling anyone to forget them, otherwise we would be fated to repeat them, but there's no reason to create a flame war on it.

 

hmmmm

lets all be friends again?

 

Boroda, I do agree with that quote. But I also want to say that neighter there were no excuses for what Stalin did in the Baltic countries and so badly wanted to do in Finland too. (all this was before Hitler's attack to Russia)

However, I also want to point out that today I don't regard Russian players and FH crew as *The Enemy* but as friends with a fine flight sim as a hobby

Kindly


------------------
-kari-

 

@Boroda and the Rest:

Information Sources about the war differ from country to country and you cannot be sure about anything, if you did not experience it. I personally do NOT know anyone remembering the war ( ok, except for my parents... my father was in the HJ, so what? His decision ) and I have to admit, that I do NOT feel guilty for anything I didn't commit and as i am born in 75 I didn't commit anything in ww2.
Thing is, every side has it's atrocities, the germans the "endlosung of the jewish question", the russians the genocide in eastern germany, the japanese the Nanking massacre, the americans their fighter squads going strafing civilians, the british the bombing of refugee crowded cities like dresden and so on and so on.....
What I want to say is, I think ( or hope ) no one of you P51 - Pilots is flying that plane in FH imagining hunting civilians, you Yak - Pilots do not imagine to land and rape the females around your airfield, you A6M - Pilots do not imagine to land at Nanking and fire into the crowds, you Bomber- - Pilots do not imagine bombing helpless cities and me personally flying my 110 do NOT imagine defending concentration camps.
We are flying an online war SIMULATION and a discussion about war crimes leads into nowhere as proven in many threads and discussion boards all over the world.
So, keep calm, give us more planes with better armament and enjoy shooting down VIRTUAL planes.

Stay dark and gothic

Vampyre

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Zerstoerergeschwader ZG76 "Haifisch"
- We have enough 30mm for all B17 Customers -

 

Still don't get it. I sure can't see what was provocative in your words. That's a lot of things left unsaid in this discussion and it is better that way.

 

whats the use of you guys argueing this?
in the past, this caused a war with the dimensinos of WWII... why would you guys settle it all down now, so easily?

in other words: i think its better if i shut up

 

Well, the final reason to end this discussion is that war crimes were defined at Nuernberg, and the criminals were sentenced. I am sure that noone here has anything common with their crimes.

Why I "overreact" on this topic: I hate when anyone tries to revision the results of WWII. "Our cause was just. The enemy was defeated. We won." This words sum it all up.

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With respect,
Pavel Pavlov,
wb:boroda
Commissar 25th IAP VVS

 

The war crimes were defined in Nurnberg indeed. Was that trial fair and equal? In fact I don't question Nurnberg, the reason for it was clear, and still is. I have no info about individual trials, so I expect it all was fair and square.

Nurnberg was not the only trial after ww2, did you know that Boroda? There was one in Helsinki too. Do you have any idea about the charges against Finnish politicians? *The Only Reason* for the trial and sentences in Helsinki is visible in your post - USSR won the war. I wonder if you - or anyone - can name any just cause for the Finnish trials? I have these blue/white glasses in this issue It would do me good to hear a 2nd opinion. Still, I honestly believe, that there were no fair reasons at all.

As comparison, there was recently a debate in the Finnish main newspaper, wheater Finland should try to sue a number of Red Army vets for warcrimes. These men visited civilians in a few Finnish border villages. Afterwards there was a crime scene investigation by Finnish police. The responsible Red Army units and commanders are known too, since they were later decorated by Stalin for "Destroying Fascists".

I think there is no real danger for these men. Like you said, you won the war. In addition to that, Russia is still a large country and Finland is still a very small one.

There are different views of different issues in different parts of The World. And that is quite OK with me. But I want to say - as my opinion - that the frace "We won the war" does not justify much. I am just curious, do you know Boroda, how it all started in Carelia in -39? There was an 'official truth' about it in Russia for decades. I have seen lately info that history books even in Russia tell a different story today. I am curious about your view. That may give new light to "Who was the criminal after all?" question.

I can easily understand the point in your post, Boroda. I do not want to chage your view. But I do hope that you may see some of the reasons why I must partly - and stronly - disagree.

Finally, I want to state that I concider most people today alive in Russia, in Finland and in The World not quilty of any sort of Warcrimes. I also concider this community as a buch of nice guys and the FH crew as the Best of Them All

Kindly

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-kari-