History of Japanese Planes on FH

The recent activity on the FH has shown that the FH is on a downhill slide. The Japanese planes, despite "efforts" by the FH team, turn no better than a B17 in most cases. Part of this bad performance is a genuine undermodeling of the Japanese planes. However, a major part of this sluggishness is the "fuel rule." The "Minimum Fuel Load is 100%" rule hits the Japanese planes especially hard. Designed for long-range operations, planes such as the Ki-43 and A6M become flying bricks with 100% fuel. Not only that, but their low fuel consumption keeps them heavier longer. The result - a plane that is not competetive at all. Like the A6M and Ki-43, the Ki-61 should be an excellent turning fighter as well. It boasts a wing loading of only 30 lbs./sq. ft. and should therefore turn better than about 90% of the FH's planes. The Ki-61 does turn well compared to the gold arsenal, but it is the best of the worst, making it inferior when stacked up against the likes of Spitfires. The Ki-84 and Ki-44 should turn only marginally if modeled correctly. But they too suffer from undermodeling which makes them sitting ducks in a dogfight or even an energy fight. The N1K1 series is an oddball. Both of these aircraft are heavy, but benefit from flaps that enlarge the wing area. They should turn moderately without flaps and only a little better with the flaps. On FH right now, they are "flying bricks" with terrible climb, top speed and have only big guns to give them an advantage.

Indeed, it seems that the Japanese planes are the most overlooked of the FH planes. While Russian, German, British, American and even Italian planes get updates that make their flight models reasonable, the Japanese planes need to soldier on with overly-heavy flight models. This fact is realized by the simple observations one can make on FH. If given a choice, more than 80% of gold pilots will pick a German plane. It is an anomaly when a gold pilot flies a Japanese plane, and an even greater rarity when he or she succeeds in it. It seems the only time golds are somewhat guaranteed to fly Japanese planes is when they are launching an assault from a CV; and even then many fly the Bf-109T. A Japanese pilot on the FH has to deal with getting out turned by a Spitfire while he is flying a Zero, having a red buff out climb you, getting the rear fuselage plucked off by a stray 20mm and of course, running is never an option. In fact, many red buffs outrun, outclimb, outgun and even sometimes out turn Japanese planes. As you read this, it is early-war on the FH. At this moment, an F4F will out turn, outrun, outdive, outclimb, outgun and outlive the A6M2 - the F4F was the same plane whose pilots exclaimed that the A6M was invincible! So to those who can relate to what I speak of (namely Japanese plane pilots), the question now becomes, "What do we do about it?"

The solution is actually rather simple. Revert to the original Warbirds 2.77 modeling. Here is why:
-The Japanese planes turn very well in 2.77
-The Spitfire turns well in 2.77 (better than German planes but not Japanese planes)
-The FW-190 and BF-109 have marginal turning ability in 2.77.
-It takes more than 1x20mm to down any aircraft in 2.77.
-The P-47 turns horribly in 2.77 but is a fast aircraft.
-The P-38 turns moderately well in 2.77 and is a fast aircraft.
-The P-51 turns badly in 2.77 but is a fast aircraft.
-The Yak series accelerates well and climbs well.
-The 109 series climbs well.
-The Spitfire series climbs moderately well.
-Japanese planes climb moderately well.
-The F4F turns, climbs and runs well, but not quite as well as the Zero in 2.77
-The F4F outdives and outguns the Zero in 2.77

Most of these issues have been brought up at one time or another on the FH Forum, and Warbirds 2.77 has all the answers that support both sides' viewpoints.

Therefore, that leaves us with the objectives of this thread.
1. To evaluate the removal of the "fuel rule."
2. To evaluate the adoption of Warbirds 2.77 flight models.

 

my thought: radical step back never the best solution.
an idea possible to steal other side plane with comms or for who can join enemi hang safely

 

Even better idea... Time Machines and Ray Guns. That's all I have to say.

 

From the current planeset IMO only 109E is modelled as it should be. They even somehow managed to fuck up spit 1. All other planes are joke and this applys to whole RPS. I see no chance to correct it, ever. The only solution is to fly and fight with what you got. No point in whining.

 

exec...?

 

as I said there's no point in whining but I wonder what would the Japanese or American WW2 pilot said for a situation: f4f doing a hard break turn from diving Zero, then reversing turn (hard) pulling up and... quickly gaining on zooming Zeke... I guess both pilots would laugh their asses off...

 

True, but this is based upon the current FH modeling. In the same situation in the regular 2.77 (no FH installed), the Zero would easily outclimb the F4F like it really should with that much of an energy advantage.

With the current modeling, relativity is out of proportion. For example, the Spitfire's or F4F's turning may seem overmodeled compared to a Zero's. But in reality it is the Zero's turning that is undermodeled.

 

I agree, I didnt even vote on any of the above options...The last thing we need is to get rid of all the progress FH has made by going back to v2.77. And the fuel Idea is kind of stupid because I think were making good steps tword realism, and you rarely hear complaints about fuel anymore...."although the spitfire doesnt know the meaning of fuel weight"...but the only thing that needs to be prompted is that the Jap planes need their handling increased.

From what I remember, a few v's before the fuel restriction thing took place, planes like the ki43 got their handling reduced, which was fair cause everyone flew with 50 fuel or less and the ki43 had insain handling much like the i15. But now that fuel has been braught to 100, the jap planes are suffering an overweight issue.....My solution, if jap planes dont get their handling increased, then increase the weight on the spitfire and other planes that can pull of the runway and about 1/4 down its strip. Excluding light 109's "which should be about halfway" and the obious choices like the i16, i15, a6m,ki27, and ect.

 

True that.

Are you saying the Mustang's turn was improved?? In which release did that happen?

 

On a side note, last map I found myself flying red alot during the late war, and atleast how I felt was that the p51d turned better than the p51b. Isnt that off? I mean, the p51d has more mg's and ammo which probably cancels out the cut down fuselage and then also has a higher wing loading in g's cause of the weight being farther away from its CG.....maybe its just me but...moral of the story, jap planes could use to get their handling back.

 

Are you guys sure devs even touched any of the stangs?? Because I sure as hell couldn't find any reference to the P-51 in the change lists of any releases since 1.4. But maybe I just didn't look hard enough ...

 

Never mind, cancel what I said in my last post. I just found it.

 

couldn't agree more Dot....

 

I say go back to original fuel settins and 2.77 or even 2.76 (was original FH) andfit all Fh new additions in around the original Aircraft.

Anyhow i'm just tired of talking AC and trying to convince anyone period, i'm oh so tired of beating a dead horse.

 

That would be stupid! It would be so much easier just to knock the jap planes handling up a few notches......Now that its early war again, I have stumbled upon the stupidest modleing error I have ever witnessed, even more than that of the anti-gravity sptitfire.. Its subtle, but no doubt there....The i15 takes considerably more damamge than the a6m does....How does something that is made up of balsa and canvis with an open canopy take more damage than a thinly but non the less sheetmetal covered a6m?

On 3 occasions tonight I have put damn near 80-120x7 and 2-12x20mm into i15's and have them flying fine with no oil leaks or anything of the sort....I got pissed thinking I was fighting gungun even though it was kernal in the end, and he only died cause he claimed his elevator was gone....

Why do the work to redo all FH planes when we could just boost jap handling? Would it really hurt? I mean, the n1k1 and ki61c are the only really heavily armed jap planes and when they arive on the scene they are outclassed by speed anyway...Frankly, Im tired of going to a field in a6m or ki61 and having a fresh off the ground 100 fuel spitfire climb straight up to 1k feet and shoot me down....The spit has no fuel weight modled to it, regardless what anyone else might say.....

JUST GIVE BACK JAP PLANES THEIR HANDLING

 

Most people agree, that 2.77 or 2.76 was balanced and more or less felt like planes should behave. It would give a solid ground to balance new planes.
But probably too much work and is easier to apply changes plane-by-plane
And my 2 cents: i am a sucky fighter, but when i see a6m I think "target" not "danger" (not like 109/110 which I see in my nightmares at nights)

 

You dont see the a6m as a danger because slowly by slowly it has been butchered. Its armor has been reduced to less than that of the i15/i16 and its handling is probablly horrible!

Regardless of what some reds may say, If you look up the numbers, the a6m should outurn the spitfire, but I dont think we will ever have that back.....By 2006, the spitfire will have pure helicopter abilitys with 30mm cannon while jap planes will have old school fw190 handling without the roll rate and be in flames with 3x7mm......oh wait....its already there.

 

Go and do some proof reading on your post.

 

did and done.

 

where can we check it?