From Those Who Don't Have A Tact

Discussion in 'Warbirds International' started by laxtsc, May 8, 2005.

  1. Glas

    Glas Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2002
    Messages:
    3,928
    Location:
    Scotland
    Wow, thats a bold statement. Also quite generalistic. Both of you.

    I've been to Greece...twice. Ive been in parts of Greece where I doubt few, if any, tourists have been. Ive seen very little of people being denied their basic civil rights. At least, no less than any other country, 'developed' or otherwise.
     
  2. geobrt

    geobrt Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2004
    Messages:
    135
    Location:
    Gdynia/Longyearbyen
    And you belive in such bulshit?

    @Boroda: Maybe you didn`t notice: I wrote: "my" not my land.
    As far as I remember you are the one that named that area "my land".
    I wrote that Stalin took that land from Poland, because he did it - at that time it was property of Poland, but I never said that it was like that all the time.
     
  3. ramzey

    ramzey Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2001
    Messages:
    915
    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    @frog
    byl Lordem admiralicji od 3 wrzesnia 39

    @Pavel
    "I cannot forecast to you the action of Russia. It is a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma." (from a radio broadcast, October 1, 1939)"

    hard to say this is welcom ;)
    anyway foregin politics of GB its foregin politics of GB not Poland, why the would have 2 wars insted of one?.....

    Slogan you say? pressure of South american countries, supporting "liberating" comunist organisations all around the world after ww2 you name slogan?
    Military advisors in Cina, Korea, Vietnam, Egipt, Syria, Irak, Iran, Cuba ..... oh thats only tourists :p

    Anyway, your gov screw up, even Stalin let Polish troops be part of victory parade in 1945, and now? even one word cannot go thrue your president throat?

    @Mart
    I bet, you know thats "news" about Polish cavalery is BS, but its so nice to kick somone from back to made yourself looking better.

    eh and its even not worth to kick you back
     
  4. -mart-

    -mart- Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2000
    Messages:
    16,508
    Location:
    Russia
    ok, tell me more about great polish role in WW2
     
  5. PressLuftHammer

    PressLuftHammer FH Beta Tester

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2003
    Messages:
    14,937
    Location:
    Ekaterinburg (Russia)
    Sure all know, it US Army was turists in Vietnam, Grenada, Iraq :D
     
  6. --stec

    --stec Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2000
    Messages:
    1,944
    Location:
    Poznan, Poland
    If you believe in something like this it only speaks of your inteligence (or rather lack thereof), which only confirms what we all already know about you.

    It wasn't a leading country in WW2 like USA, GB and USSR but biggest and most active between all supporting countrys; no major operation in ETO took place without Polish Army and in some of them Polish contribution was decisive. Denying it in USSR and in the west alike is the effect of the Stalin's politics (also forced by him on western allies - see for example London victory parade in 1946) to put Poland down as a nation and discredit its image. He succeeded - we pay for it to this very day.
    And answering your question, check the watchwords: enigma, Westerplatte, Battle of Britain, Narvik, Tobruk, Cassino, Ancona, Falaise, Arnhem, Warsaw Uprising, Liberation of Low Countries - to name only a few. Some of them were just a display of good soldiery, some were decisive for whole European Theater. The war wasn't only fought by Russia as your president wants to see it.
     
  7. -frog-

    -frog- Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2003
    Messages:
    5,303
    4th largest regular land army that fought in the War. Fought on all fronts of ETO. September 1939, April 1940 (Norway), May-June 1940 (France), Middle East, North Africa (Tobruk battle f.ex.), Sicilly, Eastern Front (from May 1943 onwards), Italy (it were the Polish who opened the gates to Rome by capturing Monte Cassino), France, Belgium, Holland (Market-Garden and later the final liberation of the country), Denemark, Berlin.

    Biggest partizan army of WWII fighting on all territories of pre-war Poland and counting over a million members.

    Small navy which fought from September 1939 till the very last days of war, escorting british convoys, military operations etc. (only 2 destroyers and 2 submarines were lost in process).

    Legendary pilots, who were first to fight against LW (126 air kills in September 39 scored mostly on fighter planes which were barely capable of catching a loaded Stuka), over 20 kills in France, scored 1/7th of all RAF kills in BoB (and acoounted for less than 1/20th of losses). Superior in skills and courage. Sometimes accused by the British of being to talkative on the radio... but always masters of their craft. Skalski's Flying Circus definately ended the reign of German LW over the skies of Northern Africa.

    Soldiers whom Bernard Montgomery said to be "the only allied units capable of winning a battle with German troops, when the odds (in terms of equipment, number and the support avaible) were equal".

    Legendary battles like the defence of Westerplatte (less than a batallion of soldiers defended their post against 2 German divisions, having the support of airforce and naval artillery from a Battleship... and that a whole week long), battle over the river of Bzura, defense of Hel. Escape and the tragic end of the submarine "Orzeł" during the blockade of Norway. Storm at Lenino in 1943 which broke Germany's lines as first in Russian 1943 offensive. Uprising in Warsaw in 1944, when Marshall Koniev's troops watched the slaughter of the city for two long months from the other bank of Vistula river (instead of aiding the Polish).

    Anything else needed?
     
  8. ramzey

    ramzey Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2001
    Messages:
    915
    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    Last edited: May 20, 2005
  9. PressLuftHammer

    PressLuftHammer FH Beta Tester

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2003
    Messages:
    14,937
    Location:
    Ekaterinburg (Russia)
    Who know, who is it ?;)
    [​IMG]
     
  10. Red Ant

    Red Ant Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2002
    Messages:
    4,946
    Location:
    Germany
    Lieutenant Calley. The guy who commanded the platoon responsible for the massacre of Mylai. Horrible as it was, I wonder how that bears any relevance to the topic at hand. :confused:
     
  11. PressLuftHammer

    PressLuftHammer FH Beta Tester

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2003
    Messages:
    14,937
    Location:
    Ekaterinburg (Russia)
    He was only tourist in Vietnam...
    If u know USSR and USA during this period is Resisted each other.
    Also did a lot of such about what now it is a shame to recollect.
    But propagation from bothsides on the used such things.
    Already there is no this opposition but propagation continues to work.
    Here again I observe the same opposition of propagation.
    And everyone considers that him opopnent is made a fool propagation.
     
    1 person likes this.
  12. Red Ant

    Red Ant Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2002
    Messages:
    4,946
    Location:
    Germany
    No doubt both sides had their dark hours. America made just as many mistakes as the Soviet Union. But that's not the point in this debate. I think what our Polish friends are so upset about is the fact that Boroda sees nothing wrong in the way his country treated the nations it liberated. I am in no way trying to badmouth Russia or its achievements in WWII, but let's be honest, we all let the Poles down pretty badly. The west because we sold them out to the Soviet regime ... the Soviets because they indeed exchanged one occupation for another. The Soviet occupation (IMHO) wasn't anywhere near as disastrous as the Nazi reign, I'll give you that .... but it was not really what hundreds of thousands of Poles had fought and died for.
     
    4 people like this.
  13. grobar

    grobar Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2000
    Messages:
    3,497
    Location:
    Пловдив, Тракия, България
    a bit offtopic maybe but an excellent lecture on the national politics in Imperial Russia:
    http://www.polit.ru/lectures/2005/04/14/miller.html


    glas, because they have learnt if you dont say "im not greek" and you speak only greek on the street you will be ok.
     
  14. manoce

    manoce Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2002
    Messages:
    1,221
    Location:
    Rožnov pod Radhoštěm, Czech republic
    those polish soldiers' hats are funny :)
     
  15. Boroda

    Boroda FH Community Officer

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2000
    Messages:
    6,422
    Location:
    Moscow
    First: how many times do I have to say that, as many educated Russians, I am sorry for what Russia did to Poland since XVIII century. But it's still far from all the pathetic stuff we hear in the media now...

    Second: I am not a big fan of comrade Putin, and I have already said here that it was a big mistake to forget Poland in his Victory Day speech.

    I don't like when USSR is turned into a scapegoat, and it's blamed of all possible sins, including starting WWII.

    As for Soviet influence in Eastern Europe after WWII - it was a matter of our security. I mean - security of USSR. I already wrote here about "peacefull" US/NATO plans regarding nuclear genocide of Soviet people, and, unfortunately it's not a joke. An attack was planned on 1957... B-52s cruising over Europe with full load of H-bombs was a sad reality.

    You can also take a closer look at late-40s European history. It's absolutely obvious that all the measures taken by Soviet government were a responce to Western policy. Look at division of Germany - Western side started it by "democratic" elections in 1948 and issuing new currency instead of occupational marks, that resulted in Berlin Blockade and founding of GDR. The same scheme almost worked in Korea in 1949050, but resulted in a big war... We are lucky it didn't come to this in Europe, mostly because people at power in Germany were more sane and realistic then in Korea...

    Soviet view on history is sometimes more correct then current "fashionable history". Before throwing accusations it's a good idea to check sources from both sides, even if you want to only understand motivations. There is no "good" and "evil" (with only a few exceptions, as nazism). There are only people who have their interests and the ways to reach their goals.

    Ramzey, thanks for the pictures! It's what we need to show to our nationalists... Unfortunately our media is involved into the same games, "political paradigm" regardless to what political force it belongs :(
     
  16. ramzey

    ramzey Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2001
    Messages:
    915
    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    -exec- start it :)
     
  17. -frog-

    -frog- Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2003
    Messages:
    5,303
    Traditional cavalery units cap, called "rogatywka" (something like "edgy-hat")... and yeap, I also do feel they're funny... but that's tradition :)
     
  18. manoce

    manoce Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2002
    Messages:
    1,221
    Location:
    Rožnov pod Radhoštěm, Czech republic
    I have seen plan of warsaw pact attack on western europe from rhw very same time (i'm sorry i don't really remember the year - could be anything from 1956-1965). The part of plan I have seen was for czechoslovakian army - it was an attack through southern Germany till Strasbourgh in France.. about 300 of nuclear bombs was planned to be used iirc... on the north cooperating with soviet troops based in DDR, in the south with soviet and magyar units going from Hungary

    so what, boroda? was it that necessary to destroy one nation's peaceful evolution in order to be in position for such attack? can you even imagine what soviet occupation meant for czech society? are you aware of fact that it completely destroyed all hopes in everything common in here; mb the the fact you are living in devastated society(or better said never truly formed up society) prevents you of understanding it... could be only ppl being brought up in here to really see it... but still, you seem to have a brain so... how you dare? Do you really believe it was question of life to occupy Czechoslovakia? Because that is what I see in your words/

    it's the biggest insult you can ever tell to a man who being aware of its nation's history had been brought up in czech rep.
     
  19. manoce

    manoce Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2002
    Messages:
    1,221
    Location:
    Rožnov pod Radhoštěm, Czech republic
    no need to translate, frog... i see the shape.. i understand the word ;)
    but anyway thx for explanation :)
     
  20. manoce

    manoce Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2002
    Messages:
    1,221
    Location:
    Rožnov pod Radhoštěm, Czech republic
    oh come on Boroda.. what you mean by soviet view on history; things imported here before '89 were anything but correct view of history...

    or do you believe that Finnland attacked treachoursly Soviet Union in autumn 1939? or that Baltic states were so eager to join Stalin's fellowship? to mention just those most well known errors

    I see.. you say SOMETIMES.. but tell me please.. what is those SOMETIMES... as far as i know there is NONE.. i repeat NONE event in history (not to mention how much soviet history science was oriented just to political and economical history - to mention how i despise such and approach) I remember to read in soviet history books that was described in more correct way than in nowadays literature that is being published here

    of course i'm talking to czech-relevant history


    PS.. I would appreciate if you would react to my post this time
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2005
    1 person likes this.