Poll. Settings for 12..13mm guns

Discussion in 'Warbirds International' started by mixer, Feb 10, 2006.

  1. Broz

    Broz Well-Known Member

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    kinda :p
     
  2. Cierzo

    Cierzo Well-Known Member

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    I've noticed that planes like ki43 with their stupid armament are quite lethal with few 12mm hits. In my opinion it should be decreased. But maybe i'm just unlucky...
     
  3. -al---

    -al--- Well-Known Member

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    I'm curious and too lazy to look for myself: was the ki43 really so fast? :)
     
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  4. Snakeye

    Snakeye Well-Known Member

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    ki-43-II was a fast fighter indeed - top speed around 530 km/h at 4km

    2x12 was considered an appropriate fighter armament in early war (hell, even 2x7mm was good back in 30's) against small aircrafts, thou by '41 4 or 6x12 was already a standard, nevertheless, earlier settings were ridiculous when you needed 150 hits to bring down a plane
    I even voted for 1.8 lethality here... :rolleyes:
     
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  5. Broz

    Broz Well-Known Member

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    ki43 is not only fast, but extremely resistant. Yesterday --rall's ki43 got 3 times in a row enough hits to take a 110 down. Last one, i fired on his leaking ki43 and scored a 37mm hit in his vstab (according to gunstat), and he flew home and landed. Amazing little plane...
     
  6. hugo baskervill

    hugo baskervill Well-Known Member

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    Old good radial engine....but this paper plane hasn't selfclosed fueltanks and it catch fire very often.
     
  7. --q---

    --q--- Well-Known Member

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    So 20mm rounds shot into the ground would make the earth to break apart.

    Seroiusly. Tanks right over the engine were not armoured and had venting gaps 4 the engine. So U dont need an AP bullet at all to disable a tank. Its enough to throw bottle with gasoline on top of its engine.
    Tracks with soldgiers were covered with fabric so 7mm would be much more effective then 12mm here.

    And another thing that we forget here. Making 12mm stronger makes the buff ottos more leathal.
     
  8. Mcloud

    Mcloud Well-Known Member

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    lol q,

    It doesn't matter if the U.S. Navy was facing jap planes. What matters is that during ww2 the U.S. Navy did a study to compare the firepower of various types of guns. The U.S. Navy could be facing UFO's from another galaxy and that fact would have nothing to do with the results of a study that compares the firepower of various types of guns. The U.S. scientists decided that when all things are considered the 50 cal gun was the best choice for a weapon, and this is the reason why the results of the study were adopted by all branches of the U.S. armed forces. Pacific war against Japs, or European war against German forces, doesn't matter, 50 cal was used in all american fighters, all over the world.

    Even after the WW2, during the Korean war and Vietnam, even today, 50 cal gun was used and still used a lot by U.S. forces.

    In your second tread you are talking about the fact that 7mm would be more effective against a vehicle with troops in it and covered my fabric.

    I agree.

    Remember that John Oliphant was a p47 pilot whose primary mission was to provide escort for american bombers. After the escort mission is over, he takes his plane to low altitudes to engage targets of opportunity. Allied pilots did this all the time. DO YOU THINK HE IS GOING TO FLY FROM GERMANY AT 30,000FT BACK TO ENGLAND TO CHANGE GUNS AND AMMUNITION ON HIS P47 AND THEN RETURN TO GERMANY TO STRAFE A VEHICLE WITH TROOPS IN IT, OR STRAFE A TANK WITH A "MORE SUITABLE" KIND OF GUN OR AMMO?

    By the way , p47's do not come with molotov cocktails, they come with 50 cal guns, LMAO. Also the engines on german vehicles and tanks were not completelety exposed, they had light armour plating over the engine compartment along with exhaust ducts which you were talking about.

    I think it's pretty clear that the point he was trying to make is that the 50 cal guns could cause major damage, both on the ground and in the air.

    He used 50 cals to strafe targets on the ground because his plane, the p47, used 50 cal guns. Just like all American planes in WW2.

    Instead of arguing with me, maybe you should argue with John Oliphant. You should call this fighter ace on the phone and tell him he was using unsuitable ammo for some ground targets. He will laugh and scratch his head and say "Is this guy drunk?" :lamer:
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2006
  9. -cbfs-

    -cbfs- Well-Known Member

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    Strange, most times I was shot in Ki-43s, parts like that were the first to leave the plane.
     
  10. Lesiu

    Lesiu Well-Known Member

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    Ki43 is really hard to bring down lately, especially in spit 9, which can be succesfully chased by previous 'victim'. I consider this plane as 'next uber with 12mm'.
     
  11. Broz

    Broz Well-Known Member

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    cc, i remember that too. When i first used gold planes, ki43 and ki61 were my options, and i remember being shot with ease. I don't know how they can get (sometimes) so many hits. That sux for me, as i have a terrible aim, and if hiting a 37mm is hard, let's not talk about hiting twice... :p
     
  12. -al---

    -al--- Well-Known Member

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    yeah I just love those p39 dweebs spraying the shit out of me from d1.5 :p
     
  13. Broz

    Broz Well-Known Member

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    lol
     
  14. spuint

    spuint Well-Known Member

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    all great
    but if 12mm were so effective
    why the fuck they mounted 8 or 6 of em :D
    do u know how much ammo weight, and gun itself?
     
  15. fatale

    fatale Well-Known Member

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    i need about 60-80x12 for fighter kill now... (buffs are about 100-120x12)
     
  16. visk

    visk Well-Known Member

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    Well, I read many WWII pilots stories, and a array of 8, 6 or even 4 12,7mm guns seemed enough lethal, at least against fighters, because was not usual open fire above 150, 200 meters, and the target did not see its aggressor many times (its rare in WB, what can be a good indicative, maybe).

    Even in Korea, 6 x 12,7mm seemed been enough to destroy MIGs, (considering the results) but the american pilots said that many times needed to spend all the ammunition to destroy an single MIG, because the speed and range had increased . Because this, the F-86 sucessor, F-100, brought 4 x 20mm cannons.

    Evidently, 20mm is more lethal than 12,7mm. But demanded a better aiming, because you have much less ammunition and less rate of fire. Perhaps the WWII specialists had thought in this way. 7,9mm was very light, but 12,7mm was enough, a good commitment in lethality x rate of fire x ammunition equation.

    Anyway, a P-47 or P-51 with 4 or even 2 20mm could be a better choice, i presume. But the Americans did not think in this way, for some reason. They had the F4U and P-51A versions equipped with 4 x 20mm, but the main purpose was a ground attack.

    Curiously, some English pilots hated cannons, they preferred the Spitfire with 8 guns.

    In WB, I think that 1.7 is a good setting.
     
  17. Gunther

    Gunther Well-Known Member

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    Some Zerstörers pilots used to remove 20mm cannon to save height and use only 4x7mm in nightfighers to kill buffs. It was reported 4x7mm firing could cut away some plane parts easily.
     
  18. visk

    visk Well-Known Member

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    The American pilot Don gentile said that a 2 seconds P-51B 4 x 12,7mm burst was enough to cut a 109 into little pieces. Gentile never opened fire opened above 150 meters. Thats the point: good aim, and to concentrate fire.

    Anyway, even few shots in a liquid-cooled engine are fatal.
     
  19. -al---

    -al--- Well-Known Member

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    2 seconds of 4x12mm is LOOOOOOOOONG
     
  20. _strafe_

    _strafe_ Well-Known Member

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    No doubt 12.7mm was (and still) a powerfull caliber. I got one cartbrige in my hand (Browning .50) is impressive. I realised what 4/6/8x12,7mm firing together can do.

    But, 13mm was a good one too. Can you imagine a 190, 110 or even a 109 with 4/6/8 x 13mm .....