20Th Anniversary of the biggest bluff in history of >Green Propaganda<

Re: 20Th Anniversary of the biggest bluff in history of >Green Propaganda<

By 2017 all type RKBGH and Q14 reactors in North America were shut down, effectively ending nuclear elecricity in that continent.
Canadian and united statesian provinces and stateses were quick to capitalize and there was a massive effort to build hydroelectric generation.
In 2048 the massive Mike Harris Dam, a project to harness the might of the Mackenzie River, was undermined and began crumbling. Mackenzie Lake, the largest lake on earth, man-made or otherwise is now draining into the Missisipi and is threatening to inundate the homes of 100,000,000 people.
Spokesperson for Shell Energy, the majority owner of the Mike Harris Damn insist there has been no effect whatsoever and the overflow can be handled easily by the turning of a few valves.
Greenpeace dissagrees, a spokesman for greenpeace issued the following statictics and added, sources say, the following unnamed expert's opinion "We in the..........

 

Re: 20Th Anniversary of the biggest bluff in history of >Green Propaganda<

Finland and Sweden are whiners.

 

Re: 20Th Anniversary of the biggest bluff in history of >Green Propaganda<

Whiners relog!!!111 Warper selfbomber n00b.

 

Re: 20Th Anniversary of the biggest bluff in history of >Green Propaganda<

Only 30 died?? and you believe it?

Use your brains and think about what happened and then think about the numbers again.

Regards

Flubby

 

Re: 20Th Anniversary of the biggest bluff in history of >Green Propaganda<

Perhaps you should study more atomic physics.

Read about "Windscale" if you can find any information.


When you have a bunch of idiots;bureaucrats and politicians running atomic power plants you can only expect Windscale/Chernobyl/Three Mile Island and worse events to happen. It is only a matter of time.

Remember the term: "half life". 10,000 years and death at PPM, parts per BILLION.

Read about Hiroshima and Nagasaki. 60 years of historical data.

20 years is not enough for any kind of real study. Especially when there are so many special interest groups trying to make the numbers out for their own narrow, greedy self interests.

Perhaps you will change your mind in say, another ten or twenty years when some real data becomes available and hopefully non of your relatives die.

 

Re: 20Th Anniversary of the biggest bluff in history of >Green Propaganda<

Is it real?

I severely underestimated the level of idocy in human kind.

Didn't they calculate contamination level in the UK from Bikini and Mururoa nuclear tests?

9000 people out of 6.6 million dieing from "some forms of cancer" - IIRC it's significantly lower rate then in, for example, US.

 

Re: 20Th Anniversary of the biggest bluff in history of >Green Propaganda<

i've seen some crazy photos of medical oddities from Semey.
is that a hoax also?

 

Re: 20Th Anniversary of the biggest bluff in history of >Green Propaganda<

Yes, only 30 firemen died of radiation sickness, and it is a fact. I mean - it's not a matter of faith, it's a fact. This people extinguished a reactor fire by literally stepping on burning graphite and heat-emitting elements (nuclear fuel tablets) with their boots.

As Looseleaf said - data on cancer is still being collected, there is an increase of cancer rate among the "liquidators", some effects are not explained yet, like increased thyroid cancer rate in second generation, but if you didn't work there on the explosion site in 1986 - you have absolutely nothing to worry about.

You may use brains in different ways. Faith and prayer are products of brain usage too. People in our institute (http://ibcp.chph.ras.ru/) use they brains, assisted by modern mathematics and scientific methods to study this problem, and they don't make conclusions like you did above.

To Biles about hydro powerstations: one of my fellow-hikers worked in Hydroproject institute. They calculated what will happen if Volga and Dniepr dams will be blown up (they are one of the first targets in case of full-scale conventional war). Each dam accumulated and now holds several dozen megatons, and the damage will be much more severe then from good old hydrogen bombs - huge areas will be "depopulated" and blown to nothing. I mean - to nothing, nothing above former ground level at all. And there are dozens of such dams in European part of ex-USSR. Such dams are tense concrete shells that can get "unbalanced" by several relatively small explosive charges and collapse ...

 

Re: 20Th Anniversary of the biggest bluff in history of >Green Propaganda<

From where?

There was a famous story about a deformed child who got filmed by some Western TV team in Kiev in 86 after the catastrophe. After the film was sown in the West KGB had some hard time finding what happened. The kid was born almost 6 months before the expolsion, his parents were alcoholics and refused from the child. When they got famous they claimed the poor kid back and asked for asylum in the West. Funny that they got kicked out back into the Union after their new hosts discovered the truth...

 

Re: 20Th Anniversary of the biggest bluff in history of >Green Propaganda<

no, i mean from Семей, "the polygon" or whatever you call it. used to be Semipalatinsk

 

Re: 20Th Anniversary of the biggest bluff in history of >Green Propaganda<

Semipolatynsk and Chelyabinsk are different stories...

those are really contaminated areas of the former USSR...

one from surface atomic weapons tests, the second one after materials used in the production of of atomic warheads exploded due to unproper handling...

... but again, those place do not havy anything in common with Czarnobyl.

@Boroda
I use Czarnobyl not because it's a phonetic version, but because it's a Polish version of the name... Czarnobyl was once part of Poland, hence the name is more convenient for me That's another one we discuss after Lemberg/Lviv/Lwów... all of those are correct, but Lemberg is the least correct one (at least from the historic point of view). I don't like the sound of "e" being used in Czarnobyl, and I also far from using western terms for a place so close that I can name with my own language w/o problems. Maybe if I had cyryllic keyboard I would use the full Ukrainian name of ЧОРНОБИЛЬ... but I don't think someone from "west" would understand me then.

 

Re: 20Th Anniversary of the biggest bluff in history of >Green Propaganda<

nothing in common, but...
...from any point on the compass nobody cares to

 

Re: 20Th Anniversary of the biggest bluff in history of >Green Propaganda<

Thx for your answer.

I agree that there have been 28-31 people, who died a short time after her "work" due to radiation sickness. What you donґt tell is the long time effect of radiosity. There are studies (i only have it in german), wich are talking about the liquidators (right word?). Over 600.000 have been working there and the study is talking about >100.000 who will die due to the radiosity they have been exposed.
Other studies like the one of the IAEA is talking about 4000 death people in the next years.
Radiation is nothing, wich ends after the exposure and radiation will stay there for the next 1000th of years. So you have to accept that there will be far more victims of the accident than those 30 you are talking about.

Regards

Flubby

 

Re: 20Th Anniversary of the biggest bluff in history of >Green Propaganda<

100000 out of 600000 going to die because of a doze they got there? You mean one out of six? I think it's a mistake. So far I only knew one man who worked there for some time, got "liquidator's" privileges, and died 2 years ago because of a stroke. Definetly not because of milliBERs he got in 1986.

Our institute has probably the best statistic material on Chernobyl', there is nothing like 1/6 of liquidators even seriously sick.

/*by BER I mean "biological equivalent to Rentgen", a unit used to measure radiation exposure*/

There are many people who got dozens of BERs in a matter of hours still alive and feeling fine. Death doze is IIRC 75 BER at once, and even people who got such dozes often survive. Chernobyl firemen who died (that 30 brave people) got over 100 BER

All nessessary and unnessessary measures were taken there in 1986. Like completely removing contaminated soil. What is left radiates like granite. BTW, if you live or work in an old granite building - beware! Smoke from burnt coal is also radioactive. Cigarette smoke too.

Last reactors in Chernobyl' produced electricity for over 10 or 15 years, I don't remember when Ukrainians shut down the last one. They were mantained and serviced by people who worked according to industrial radiation norms, within hundreeds of meters from "sarcophagus"...

 

Re: 20Th Anniversary of the biggest bluff in history of >Green Propaganda<

State facts and not propaganda please.
Please QUOTE that IAEA source... I found that on their site:
[size=-1]www.iaea.org/Publications/Booklets/Chernobyl/chernobyl.pdf

Pages 14 and 15 of the document read:

Page 16

So flubby... take more care when quoting sources... they may speak against you... when read (and not only quoted)
[/QUOTE]
[/size]

 

Re: 20Th Anniversary of the biggest bluff in history of >Green Propaganda<

BTW- the quoted number "4000" reffers to the number of thyroid cancer cases detected since the accident among the whole population of Belarus and Ukraine (around 60M total)...

compare to the USA:
http://www.endocrineweb.com/thyroidca.html
http://www.thyca.org/thyroidcancerfacts.htm

geez Americans must have one Czarnobyl each 30 weeks if that's to be compared with 4.000 Belarusian and Ukrainian cases... Jesus H Christ... 20-30 thousands... EACH YEAR!

 

Re: 20Th Anniversary of the biggest bluff in history of >Green Propaganda<

Thanks, it's very interesting, I didn't think they still play with facts...

I only can say that statistics that is studied here isn't that nice Among liquidators thyroid cancer is more frequent, but IMHO it could be expected... The problem is that in statistics on liquidator's children shows that thyroid cancer is more frequent too. I can't provide any further details, I heard it from our scientists here in IBCP. I am not a specialist in this field, I just heard that they were worried, it spoils all data analysis on cancer, and I don't know exact figures, it may be something like a pathetic 0.5% growth on a small statistic group.

I'll ask that scientists for details, to explain it on fingers to me, i'm unable to understand their reports and printed works.

 

Re: 20Th Anniversary of the biggest bluff in history of >Green Propaganda<

The global tendence in thyroid cancer cases is: increase
not only in Ukraine...

some link it with the advances in diagnostics, none to Czarnobyl

 

Re: 20Th Anniversary of the biggest bluff in history of >Green Propaganda<

wir sollen ueber frogs Woerter sprechen und denken

frogs brain is like an brochen leg

we ar the doctor

think: wat is worst thing doctor can do to patient with brochen leg?

is this

doctor say ?ur leg is not brochen?

dis make frog suffer wit brochen leg und he never will learn how fix his Problem

we shall thus do nothing

best punishment for brainwash person is promote his illnes

 

Re: 20Th Anniversary of the biggest bluff in history of >Green Propaganda<

Don't preach please and don't try to cure us. In Russian argot "to cure" (lechit') = to annoyingly try to persuade someone.

We live much closer to the trouble, and we don't care about "contaminated reindeer meet".

Look, I tried to be as honest as possible, I work in Institute of Bio-Chemical Physics, Russian Academy of Science, here people work on this problem, I mean - they have all availible data, and they make vital decisions. Any Western "source" on the problem that claims to have more data is pure rafinated propaganda.

I really love the Westen view on Slavonic nations, Grobar described it. We are "barbarians on our shaggy mounts", "Asian hordes" etc. Maybe we are, but we have one of the best educaion systems, we had our countries occupied for centuries and then destroyed twice in last 100 years (by civilized Western nations), rebuilt everything each time and beaten everyone else in things like space exploration. Who remembers now that Poles and Bulgarians were in space before most of the other nations? Who remembers that USSR built the world's first nuclear power station? Keep teaching us, please, we have fun listening to you