Guess the tank...

Discussion in 'Warbirds International' started by Holmes, Aug 10, 2006.

  1. rgreat

    rgreat FH Developer

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    Yep, but these 'tanks' often have a several names simultaneously...
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2006
  2. Boroda

    Boroda FH Community Officer

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    Army dot mil. And this people tell me about propaganda :D Outbreak my ass. Kim Il Sung couldn't fart if Stalin didn't allow him, and you seriously think he started a war not aproved by Kremlin?!

    US army left? Interesting. Maybe next time you;ll tell me that US Army left West Germany in 1949?

    Oh, well, it's "Army". Those who left were probably not Army, but Navy or Marines or Air Force.

    And UN forces that landed in Chemulpo in 1950 never existed. And MASH is a total fiction.

    Definetly not a side that got a complete refusal regarding support in a proposed war.

    Gandhi, I have a strong feeling that you always hallucinate. Maybe you are on some kind of drugs? Like coffee, tobacco or alcohol?
     
  3. biles

    biles Well-Known Member

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    Baltic Fleet. Coal powered. Couldn't find fuel. British wouldn't co-operate - no fuel from them, at their Empire's coaling stations.

    Spent as much time coaling as they did sailing.
    Conscript sailors.

    Smokey guns.
    Tired, poorly trained crews. Ships armored with iron no fit to make balcony furniture.
    Squirrel powered torpedos.
    Tsushima - very bad for Russia.

    Single rail line through siberia. Not a lot of rolling stock on that railway. Long long communications and supply lines. Single telegraph line along the railway.
    Conscript troops. Poorly trained. Poorly fed. Poorly eqipped. Poorly led.

    End Russian Empire. begin Japanese Empire.

    That was around the time My russ ancestors bribed their way out.
    Oh, maybe it was a little earlier. Not sure. My Baba had a painting of some troops dressed in white goin up some stairs or something - with rifles. She said that was around the time, or the place or something..... where her people came from from...
    I just thought it was a cool picture and didn't think to remember details.
     
  4. gandhi

    gandhi Well-Known Member

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    i hear u brotha

    just look at this website
    but its navy dot mil

    must be US propaganda
     
  5. Boroda

    Boroda FH Community Officer

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    Biles, frankly speaking I didn't expect anything like that from anyone.

    I read "Tsushima" by Novikov-Priboy when I was 8. Re-read it every 3-4 years. It's getting harder every time, such human tragedy gets more... hmmm... vital? understandable? each time....

    But the greatest trouble was in the land-war. Fantastic incompetence and plain idiocy.

    Sending Second Pacific Task-force (Baltic fleet) was more then stupidity. But armoured fleet travell around Africa to the Pacific was unique, unbelievable achievement.

    Tsushima was probably he greatest naval battle of all times, compared to Salamin and Trafalgar. Greatest pathetic defeat ever achieved.

    4 Japanese battleships versus 8 Russian. Battleship Oslyabya sunk in 15 minutes by Japanese Kamimura's heavy cruiserrs... Alexander III - no survivors out of 950... Borodino - 1 survivor out of 950. First in line was Prince Suvorov, dozen survivors only because a destroyer made an almost-suicide docking under fire to evacuate admiral Rozhestvenskiy...

    Morning May 15 (Julian calendar) - Russian fleet surrenders to Japanese... A saddest page in a history of Russian Navy... IIRC admiral Nebogatov was executed by bolsheviks in early-1920s...
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2006
  6. Boroda

    Boroda FH Community Officer

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    Let me tell you a Greatest Law of Organic Chemistry.

    When you mix a kilogramm of honey and a kilogramm of shit - you get two kilogramms of shit.

    Understand?
     
  7. gandhi

    gandhi Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]

    my friend u are 'ducking the issue'
     
  8. biles

    biles Well-Known Member

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    I am a Gardener. Always will be. I am a Japanese Gardener. I am not Japanese.
    I learned japanese Gardening.
    I fondly recall 'my Japs.'
    I have worked with many talented japanese gardeners and will always fondly remember them as 'my Japs.'
    You wouldn't believe the shit I take when I call a Japanese Gardener friend 'one of my japs.' And usually it is shit from a person who knows NOTHING about Japan or Japanese.
    [In Western Canada, a 'nigger' is a 'poorly paid and overworked employee' and that will often elicit furious respionse from people who no not the local lingo, either.
    Anyways, yeah.
    I was 18 or so and this guy, Hiro, a fuckin guy who wins awards for his designs, my employer, he sauntered up to me for the tenth time that day and said to me while I was bent over a pile of steer manure, "Brad, you are not working hard enough."
    And he had said that before.
    I am a fuckin hard worker.
    I was insulted. I was ready to kill that fucker. I wouldn't have been able to, without a gun... but still, was I ever angry!!
    I said, "Hey! Fuck you pal! You can't talk to me that way! I am not your slave, man! Go fuck yourself. I QUIT!"
    He blanched. He sputtered and gasped. It looked like he was ready to keel over and die, right there!
    He calmed himself while I went to get my lunch kit and my ruck sack and leave.
    And he explained to me, by way of apology, that in Japan, crew bosses talk to their men like that all the time. That it is normal to cajole and tease your guys.
    He had been here for a few years and not one man had ever reacted the way I had. he just went on and figured it was alright to do that.

    I watched that guy, almost overnight, completely change his deportment. He changed and appeared much less a FUCKIN IDIOT.

    He even started to bring beer for the crew after work some days.

    I did not do this. I am sure some of the Sikhs who were on our crew had re-enforced this lessen.
    You don't call a Sikh lazy either, not more than once or twice, becuase he will eventually bust your face open... actually, no. He will suffer like a martyr trying to NOT bust your face....

    Nevermind.
    Soon, I will be back at work and you will hear little from me until Saturday next.
     
  9. Saddan

    Saddan Well-Known Member

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    Fiber-Optics add´s a whooooole new level to this technology. Wire guided can be jammed (the wires works as antennas) and have limited range.

    FOG-MPM comes with 3 range versions, 10km (for the grunts wanting to take rid of the pesky M1 Abrams comming their way), 24km (For AA defense, further anti-tank and counter-battery [you can see where the steel rain is comming from using the imaging camera]) and multi-porpuse 60km range (Imagine the faces of the american marines in the receiving end of this missile), there are currently Imaging and Thermal cameras for it, and a SAR imaging on the pipeline...

    Its not on the same business as traditional wire-guided missiles... You can really screw a armored platoon using them... You can even insert inertial points in the missile flight path in order to hide the source position (ie, fly a U shaped flight and the tanks will not know the real position of the firing battery). At 60km you can kill tanks, choppers, Jump-jets, landing ship, etc...

    This is our basic heavy infantary weapon. The other is the MSS1.2 (Laser beam riding missile, lighter and simpler than FOG-MPM). Calling FOG-MPM old technology is strange, Brazil is the only country to field them... (South africa Dennel wants to produce them but this depends on some contracts being fullfiled on their part, like the Derby missiles tech transference - we currently use Derby as our BVR missiles, but we want a longer range version of it). Dennel is partly owned by brazillian goverment, even the Piranha missile was upgraded with A/R-Darter technology...
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2006
  10. gandhi

    gandhi Well-Known Member

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    it is hard to aim a missil when u ar in foxhole that is literally filled to the brim with napalm
     
  11. biles

    biles Well-Known Member

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    [OH SHIT!:
    There could be a spool of wire on the missile..... which might negate some of the effects I was thinkin.....
    But 60 km of it?
    But how much does 60 km of fibre optic cable and it's steel support wiegh?
    That is another horrible logical hole in the Story Of This Missile]
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2006
  12. reuben

    reuben Well-Known Member

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    I have a slingshot. And my nephew has a bow and arrow.

    We'll PWNRZ you all, muahahaha.


    (morons)
     
  13. airfax

    airfax Well-Known Member

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    ("swedish armed forces")

    :D




    (we just throw rocks)
    (it'll take time for finns to evolve to "bow&slingshot era....)
     
  14. Saddan

    Saddan Well-Known Member

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    No problem, shoot the messenger and aim the missile to the napalm carrier aircraft itself...

    Only safe way is to bomb it from 5km+ where its not very easy to aim a missile launcher not bigger then an standard laser guided AT missile...
     
  15. Saddan

    Saddan Well-Known Member

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    A Similar USA missile :

    EFOGM

    Yet, their version is limited to 15km range, AVIBRAS version is limited to 60km range and this is currently increasing (No one would launch a 60km version against a target 5km away, the longer range versions are developed for high value targets, like a landing dock ship)...

    They want to build UCAVs based on the recycled fiber optics principle (IF someone bothers to recover the fiber, it can be reconditioned by the factory at São Paulo). It´s a kind of captive Helicopter capable of doing some limited anti-tank and recon works, without the danger of wireless communication (IE, someone taking over your aircraft with the correct encrytion keys)...

    Its not hard to build a small chopper with PC104 board installed, with a militarized Gigabit FX ethernet board and a GPS receiver, running linux.

    If the link is broken, the helicopter software goes back to base using the GPS and inertial system...

    War is going slowly, everyday, towards the missile exchange level, where infantary and armour will have a limited value... You can even preemptively strike a armor concentration point, from 40km away, using these missiles without fear of reprisals... You can say : Oh but the apaches would tear down the lanching sites, as Israel do against hizbollah katyuchas... The problem is when the Apache itself is vulnerable to the missile (FOG-MPM can shot down an apache easily as it is immune to counter measures).

    In the current Brazillian AD organization, the only breach is the high altitude/high speed interception level, we dont have a missile on the S-300 class (We have a netcentric device similar to ZSU-23, the FILA, wich uses a netcentric approach to direct 25mm cannon fire and FOG-MPM launches against low-speed/low-to-med altitude threats).

    CTA is trying to develop a command guidance missile, integrated into SIVAM (sivam is a network of airborn, land and sea based radars) where the command singals are encrypted inside the radar signal, making it very hard to break (It can re-route the commands from one radar to another if the 1st one is too far or obscured by ECM).

    SIVAM hardware is mostly USA/Isreal orign, but the software behind it is national (Atech) and based on a militarized Linux)
     
  16. biles

    biles Well-Known Member

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    War is going slowly, everyday, towards the missile exchange level, where infantary and armour will have a limited value...

    Liddell-Hart argued similar. He said future wars would be fought by 'land ships' and foot soldiers would be limited, supporting roles, like marines to a navy.

    he was talking like that, to anyone who would listen, in the twenties and thirties. He was very very wrong.

    Microchips and IC boards and high quality optical glass require industrial plant. Hi-tech Industry is frail. Hi tech machines are one-off efforts and they will be rapidly attrited and there will be nothing to replace them. Except grunts. JUST LIKE ALWAYS.

    In the 70s and 80s, analysts figured the life expectancy of a NATO fighter plane in the event of an attack by Warsaw Pact into the North German Plain was 20 minutes.

    Let's hope your foot knows how to fight, because, in the event of war, they will have to, eventually.

    There are basics that every fighting force has to adhere to. Skip steps at your own peril.
     
  17. Red Ant

    Red Ant Well-Known Member

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    I doubt infantry will lose its value any time soon. In some general's wet dreams, war might increasingly become a matter of flinging high-tech missiles at each other. In the real world it's precisely this over-reliance on high-tech toys and the notion that boots on the ground aren't as important anymore that's hurting the US military the most in Iraq now. All these fancy gadgets are great to have, and if you were to fight the war of your dreams, they might even turn out to be true war-winners. Unfortunately the wars people find themselves fighting in are rarely the wars they wanted to fight, let alone planned to fight. Low intensity wars in difficult terrain are much more likely than technological empires sending fully automated death stars to duke it out with each other and that's why infantry is only becoming MORE valuable, not less.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2006
  18. Red Ant

    Red Ant Well-Known Member

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    Couldn't agree more, biles.
     
  19. -al---

    -al--- Well-Known Member

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    Just saw Mythbusters a couple hours ago. They were makin' themselves paper crossbows. Cool stuff, you could actually kill with :D
    But then again, you can kill a man with a toothpick...
     
  20. Fucketeer

    Fucketeer Banned

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    With hands.

    With a fart.