A few hours ago, I talked with jata-- (first in ch100, then on gold channel) about the Ki-84. I argued that the Ki-84 in the game is much faster than its real life counterpiece in actual Japanese service because the performance of the Ki-84-1a in Warbirds is based on American tests using a capured evaluation model in superb flying condition (and with a polished surface), and filled up with 130/150 grade American av-gas (as opposed to the 87 - 92 grade fuel the Japanese had to contend with IRL). The Ki-84 in that test reached a top speed of 427 mph (687 km/h) at 20,000 feet, putting it in the same ballpark as the P-51 / P-47. The Ki-84's in Japanese service, are generally cited as being capable of 392 mph (631 km/h) at 6 km (roughly 20,000 feet), more than 30 mph less than the evaluation model. I believed that our Ki-84 here is modeled after the performance data gathered by flying that evaluation model. To prove that, I took a Ki-84-1a, loaded her up with 100% fuel and started my own tests. The results are posted below. Code: Altitude MIL WEP fuel left when measured sea level 540 km/h 566 km/h 95% 2 km 589 km/h 613 km/h 80% 3 km 607 km/h 630 km/h 75% 4 km 606 km/h 627 km/h 70% 6 km 638 km/h 649 km/h 65% 7 km 640 km/h 650 km/h 50% Now while I have to concede that our Ki-84 is obviously NOT based on the one from the American tests, I still contend that the Warbirds Ki-84 is about 20 km/h too fast at 6 km. And since it is too fast at one altitude, there is reason to believe that it is faster than it should be at all other altitudes as well. The difference is much smaller than I thought it was, but it is still there.
well we all heard already, that changing the plane's parameters isn't as easy as setting one variable to another value taking that into account I'm sure there are many more cases where planes are too fast/slow and there's no higher grade fuel to justify that @redant: find some japanese data in russian language and try 'n' change anything. I dare you I double dare you motherfucker try 'n' change anything one more god damn time
I don't know how fast the N1K should be. One site puts it at 361 mph at 19355 ft (roughly 6 km). Here are my own test results (N1K1): Code: Altitude MIL WEP fuel left when measured sea level 477 km/h 494 km/h 95% 1 km 497 km/h 515 km/h 65% 2 km 518 km/h 532 km/h 50% 3 km 533 km/h 545 km/h 75% 4 km 547 km/h 557 km/h 55% 5 km 556 km/h 565 km/h 65% 6 km 563 km/h 573 km/h 55% The N1K1 in the game is about 6 mph slower at 6 km than the site I posted claims it should be. Then again 19355 ft is actually 6.3 km, so perhaps the N1K1 would pick up a few mph if I had tested it at that alt. Actually, I'll go and try that out. P.S. No, it didn't. Code: Altitude MIL WEP fuel left when measured 6.35 km 564 km/h 573 km/h 65%
Another useless thread on trying to fix up FM's... The admins won't do anything about it, even IF you get that Jap data in a Russkie translation. If it aint a Russian or German plane, then it is a waste of time.
No,no,no,no I didn't say anything about translations - that would be too easy. You need the original japanese document in russian. Like you need that japanese test pilot and testing comission write in plain russian.
And that would actually accomplish what again? Players confidence level of the admins has achieved what negative #?
RedAnt, when tried to explore Hayate, i found that Baugher's article lists several engines used Nakajima Ha-45-11 aka NK9A Homare 11 1800hp/tkoff (prototype flight tests, early series) Nakajima Ha-45-12 aka NK9C Homare 12 1825hp/tkoff (early series) Nakajima Ha-45-21 aka NK9H Homare 21 1990hp/tkoff (later series) Nakajima Ha-45-23 aka NK9J Homare 23 ?hp/tkoff ("even later" series) therefore before discussing mismatches, we must establish a standard for Hayate. do we know which engine was in these 150 grade fuel TAIC tests? also, Baugher gives some intro and action dates of Hayate, which i understand as: 43/10 service tests of 83 airplanes of preproduction serie 44/04..44/06 42 airplanes of second preproduction batch 44/04 first aircraft of main production series built this is interesting: what does he mean? Hayates seen in combat? or reflection on battles passed long ago with TAIC manual in hands, comparing digits of 150octanes with specs of pony an jug? of, long story short. which engine hayate is powered at fh, do you think? (no jokes about ufo or authority engines) p.s.ouch... moved to http://www.csd.uwo.ca/Elevon/
I don't at the moment. I'll try to find out (the internet sure sucks when you need data on a very specific aircraft model). I have obviously no certain way of knowing what exactly he meant. I'm not sure. Seeing as our Ki-84 in the game is available starting from Feb 44, it would have to be one of the earlier models?
well... since we don't know what "restored" means (i mean restored by repainting only or restoring by total scavenging), i'd suggest not to use post-war restorations. some plant in russia produced a small serie of a6m for some japanese customer recently. i mean in 21 century already. or some people restored 190 with soviet design cinesse produced ash-82 engine. how can we compare these crafts with original ones? as for standard-game series, imho it must be most numerous sub-type. propably ha-45-21, since it is medium version, not early (80+42), not late (when plants are damaged). anyways, wether 12, 21 or 23, we can model any good documented version.
This would = it was a complete rebuild of the aircraft, though this would raise a couple of questions. 1.. Did the restoration include the use of manufactured replacement parts? According to the article. This would appear to indicate that all parts were original, so deducing that the engine is original. 2.. Could a IJAF (as is) engine take high octane fuel for a sustained duration without burning the pistons or valves? Now this poses the question of the quality, and reliability of the parts created by the manufactuer; considering that the plane was designed to fly with (x) type fuel (lower octane), it bounces back to question 2.. 3.. What performance trade-offs do you aquire with the use of low octane vs high-octane? (Since the IJAF used the lower octane, it should thus be modelled on whatever its performance was under that condition, since it was the norm).
are you gonna say the same thing to -al--- for his flaming?? Not trying to have a go at you -al---, I agree with you.
I can,t find much eihter on ki 84. All i find is top speed of 392 to 394 MPH. But no sources listed. The one test you see was done by US with a captured 84 and did use the hihg octane rating, making it faster than pony and jug. Here are links to what i,ve found , http://www.clubhyper.com/reference/ki84performanceaj_1.htm , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakajima_Ki-84 On a side note here is a site i found on the the I 16 http://www.airpowermuseum.org/exhibits/polikarpov/index.html Note what they say: Polikarpov's I-16s were deployed on all fronts during the war; however, the number of I-16s defending Russia steadily dwindled over the next year until only 13 remained in the Soviet Defense Force by the fall of 1942.
