Mosquito - manoeuvreability

Discussion in 'Warbirds International' started by fatale, Sep 27, 2007.

  1. looseleaf

    looseleaf Well-Known Member

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    OOPS! Sorry.....:dunno:
     
  2. bulldg

    bulldg Active Member

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  3. ledada

    ledada Well-Known Member

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    how it is modelled in other games

    hi all,

    i am well aware, that these are just another game's flight-models...
    i have not the slightest idea, where they gathered the data from and i also frankly admit, that i can't even read well the information shown in the graphs :)

    however, maybe it can be interesting to see some data of 'il2 1946, v.4.08' (since they are so pretty well presented):

    Mossie Mk.IV (blue) vs P-38 J (red)
    [​IMG]

    Mossie FB Mk.VI (blue) vs P-38 J (red)
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2007
  4. rudeboy

    rudeboy Well-Known Member

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    Glue Laminate Main Spar Lovely, fuck, jist lookin there, hehe.
    [​IMG]
     
  5. looseleaf

    looseleaf Well-Known Member

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    Re: how it is modelled in other games

    It appears that those graphs show the classic difference between crankshaft driven supercharging and turbo-supercharging- exhaust driven supercharging.

    The two stage superchargers, no matter how advanced, there will always be a digital step opposed to the turbo analog curves.

    Who knows, perhaps the turbo'd engines in the Mossie would have proved too much strain and the wood would have given away....?

    Interesting curves though....
     
  6. deadmeat

    deadmeat Banned

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    Ant, I've already noticed the adventage of P-38 and that tuned engine (even knowing what Kelly Johnson did later, known as SR-71) BUT imo USAF had enough time and reports to state the plane's performance correctly, mostly because the Lightning is one of the planes having the greatest reputation and a symbol of the USAAF (and the plane of highest ranking aces like Bong and McGuire). They MUST write it correctly.
    So if we are discussing on possibilities, those engines doesnt mean more than the exotic prototype of the Mossie. Were those engines used in actual combat or in large series? If they were it should have been reported, even if Lockheed itself gave the green light. Otherwise it's a myth or another exotic prototype. I've seen many 38 upgrade designs and it definitely could have been even more faster, but so could the Mossie. Merlin engines could have been also tuned, they also had later variants. Now imagine what the Merlin of late Spits or the P-51 (or even Griffons) would do to the Mossie. The thing is Mossie werent needed at the late war as much as it did in 1941-1943 so it did not go under as great advances as the 38 did, Mossie's job as a fighter was well done by Spits and Tempests, or strategic bomb raids by Lancasters. If the Mossie would have been used in the front line in large numbers as the Lightning it would have been more upgraded too. Anyway, we are discussing on engines now, while we should about the aircraft. Engines can give very different performance at different RPM and different alt etc. While the Allison gives an extra burst at 3000, Merlin may give it at 2000 or 4000 or may not be cleared or may be cleared unofficially.
    The other thing is, we are arguing about latest models and high-tuned advances. When I stated that Mossie was the fastest of its time I meant its time of deployment, which was in 1941 while the 38 was nowhere (also 190 etc). It's like I'd compare the P-80 to the MiG-15. Upgrading can be done later at anytime, due to experience in duty and other needs, this time I meant the original aircraft just out of hangar. For example, a Honda Civic can be tuned to hell and can win all drag races but will never be a Corvette. We both could make our planes faster if we had to race in real life, engine upgrades, weight reduction etc. But thats far from an aircraft's original design.
    And about the max speeds/alt differences: you said the truth, BUT it's also true about the P-38 or the Mossie. The Lightning may be faster at one altitude, while the Mossie is faster at another. I've never seen a comparison at the same altitude or true max speeds. OR if the ones given on the performance pages we've shown or talked about are the true max speeds of the 38 and the Mossie then it's also the true max speed of the 190.

    PS.: okay but u'll be beaten by Fatale and her rolling pin first :D
     
  7. deadmeat

    deadmeat Banned

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  8. Red Ant

    Red Ant Well-Known Member

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    That recon Mossie may well have been faster than even the 72 Hg Lightnings at many alts (or even at all alts), but I dismissed it because with only a little less than 100 built is in no way representative of the Mosquito series as a whole, virtually all of which were significantly slower than even the pre-1944 Lightnings.

    I will try to dig up some sources to back up my claims about the 72 Hg Lightnings, though I know right from the get-go that finding something official will be very hard. At least I hope to find that quote in Bodie's "The Lockheed P-38 Lightning" where he talks about Allisons in the 38.
     
  9. deadmeat

    deadmeat Banned

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    I believe u that those 72Hg Lightnings did exist and operated well, just messed around cause sometimes u showed up pretty arrogantly ;) U know I love the Lightning too :)

    I've found this lately, the late war & post war long range fighter development of the Mosquito, called Hornet. First flew in late 1944 but entered service only in 1946 so only saw combat in the less known Malaya conflict, years after the great war. So this Hornet babe wont match the Lightning, wasnt used in combat in WWII but is interesting anyway :) This is a single-seated version with bubble canopy (Mossie had a crew of 2, even the fighter version too), has also counter-rotating props (Mossie hadnt), engines were 2× Rolls-Royce Merlin 130/131 12-cylinder engines, 2,080 hp (1,551 kW) each that gave a max speed of 472 mph at 22,000 ft (760 km/h at 6,706 m) and the prototype even achieved 485 mph (780 km/h). This plane was only slightly slower than the Do 335. Could do good to me in WB :D

    So, here's her:

    [​IMG]
     
  10. looseleaf

    looseleaf Well-Known Member

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    Wasn't there a mossie version called "tse-tse" that had a huge cannon? Something like 75 or 57mm?


    Also there were reports that a one point in the war of recon Mossies and recon Arado 232s flying around, spotting each other and playing "tag" as they were the only planes at that speed and altitude yet with no guns it was all they could do was wave at each other.....

    I have yet to read anything about P-38 photo recon spec planes. Anyone know anything?
     
  11. gandhi

    gandhi Well-Known Member

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  12. Red Ant

    Red Ant Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, on my search for more P-38 sources I came across this babe, too. Her clean lines are very appealing. Must have a been joy to fly that one. :)
     
  13. looseleaf

    looseleaf Well-Known Member

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    OK, Here's some Mossie flyby, pretty cool stuff.


    Also the PR. 34 is said to be the fastest war era Mossie

    @425MPH!


    http://www.dhmosquito.com/
     
  14. Red Ant

    Red Ant Well-Known Member

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    Alright, finally found something.

    USAAF testing at Wright Field; March 1944

    P-38J airspeed comparison

    [​IMG]

    Notice how top speed jumps from around 415 mph at 25 kft to a little under 425 mph at 21 kft when 70 inches of manifold pressure are used.

    "The following limiting War Emergency rating manifold pressures have been established by the Eighth Air Force for the different aircraft:

    [...]P-38 ----- Old: 60 Hg ------ New: 65 Hg"

    Check out the HP rating (although that's for an even higher boost rating of 75 Hg, but still!). :eek:

    Going to look for more sources.
     
  15. Red Ant

    Red Ant Well-Known Member

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    Someting unrelated to the engines: http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/p-38/p-38-28392.html

    " g. Stalling Characteristics

    The airplane stalls straight forward with power-off but tends to fall off on either wing with power on. There is no tendency for the airplane to go into a spin."

    Ya hear that, devs? :p
     
  16. looseleaf

    looseleaf Well-Known Member

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    Good Job, Red! WTG!

    Thanks for all the research. Hope the powers that be do something about it.