Gentlemen, Russian first fifth-generation aircraft PAK-FA FLEW!!!

Will they actually make more than two demonstrators like the last few "elite" russian planes shown?

 

Definitely some resemblance. At the very least this lays to rest the Su-47 forward swept fanboy nonsense.

Perhaps there are some features that are simply the best arrangements for a stealth design that engineers can arrive at independently (we could have expected, for instance, that European or Russian engineers could have independently developed the popular Boeing 707 geometry that persists to this day).

For example, the tail-wing-intake leading edge formula common to both aircraft has some benefits for lift and stability:



The vortices are shed off the strake and spread spanwise to move turbulent air away from the vertical tails.

In my opinion:

-inlets: similar to F-22 (T-50s also appear to be fixed, unless movable LE above intake doubles as a Mach ramp)
-nose: very similar to F-35
-aft cockpit-fuselage: close to YF-23

 

Anyone got patent on Laminar Flow surfactant? Internal Combustion? Cotton String.... Franklin Stoves? Pi? I bet some fucker tried claim ownership on all those ideas, at one time or another, had little [deleted] bastards arguing in patents courts or copyright so people would have to pay a royalty to travel on a bitulithic street or use rolled toilet paper. Stressed concrete...
I don't think that plane looks like the fuckin f22, no more than it looks related to any other modern war planes. They don't make them as triplanes... why not? Does an inventor have to skip ideas or proven technology because someone else tried them already and bought them? Fuck that. These are Russians we are looking at. Russians don't respect patents. And it isn't recent. Russia never did accept patenting or copyrighting, since the Tsars ran the show, as a state, accept patents or grant them. It was moot. Later, was mig 21 samizdat ??? No, it can't be done that way. You can neither 'steel' nor bootleg an idea. You can be inspired though.....
You need DRAWINGS and measures and algorithms talented of people to work forward from idea to a made thing. It won't just grow like a seed left. Needs more.
You need a LOT OF DRAWINGS and measures and algorithms [and people to configure them]. Organization, like, say, Sukhoi. And those guys put their stuff behind a wall, yes. But that is their shop-work routines, their production and assembly jury rigs and jigs, their company culture, etc. Ideas are better left communicated and allowed to move in a viral way, lest we forget how we made the Chaops Pyramid... or that glass skull someone found that is really really old, and it is made with glassware that we people cannot duplicate?? Yeah, that one. You remember it, right?

I don't think Russia has ever had patent law. They never did, never, not for centuries, it isn't just a communist thing, so stop the blame and ed-hominum and taking credit for things you didn't build. GOOD FOR SUKHOI!

You do not have my permission to be become inspired by my ideas, contact Himen Goldman [Law, BBSC]..... NYC.

 

Yes, patents must die! An infuriating practice by many companies is to patent stuff they never have any intention of using ... ever. But by patenting it, they stop others from potentially making a buck of it.

 

True.

 

Hooray! Something new to kill!

 

Crap where did I say (apart from the obvious "stole" joke, it even had a smiley for gods sake) that it's a bad thing that it looks this way?
I just stated that there is a resemblance, and there goes the shitload of hate and patent crap.

 

My patent crap had nothing to do with your post, by the way. Just making that clear to avoid any misunderstandings.

 

ohhhh, it was a "stole joke"??? o'key, show me at least a one smile or one "joke reminder" in your earlier posts. Any? Or i have to say u're justa dirty liar.

itsa bullshit.

look at on your own post:
http://forum.wbfree.net/forums/showpost.php?p=666780&postcount=14

bullshit. full hands of bullshit here.

 

http://www.sci.fi/~fta/MiG-29.htm

 

neg, T-50 inlets more plain rather to F-22.

both nose and rear-fuselage is very similar to YF-23 for me (exept rudders and hstabs, of course )

 

Right..... about..... here... ^
You shouldn't have any problems spotting it, you quoted it yourself...
Do we really need to go into childish games like this?
All of this because I said they look similar? Do you not think that your reaction is disproportional to my opinion, to which I am after all entitled?

M'kaaayyyy, that must be your other personality coming through. The one that DOESN'T have problems with seeing similarity between some planes.

And what are you implying here?

What exactly is bullshit in connection to my previous post? Was there not any stating of resemblence in that post? (there was)
The rest was a joke - it had a smiley.
When someone even so much as mentions russkies stealing something from the yanks, or anyone else for that matter, you guys always go guns blazing, personal and national insults included. I always find that amusing.

At least try to state more clearly what it is that you have a problem with in my post, because frankly all I see is that you like to deal with bullshit, and a lot of it at that...

edit: Or better yet: don't. I know exactly what's going on here, I already had my laughs

@ant: nope, your patent crap I liked and sympathise with.

 

Yeah-yeah, when observed from the front arc, PAK FA surely has more than a few things in common with YF-23.
If you then look at it from above, it resembles F-22 just as much.
And then, when you're viewing it from astern, it is no wonder that MiG 1.42 prototype comes to mind

So, if anyone deliberately wants to see T-50 as a rip-off from preceeding Lockheed-Martin, Northrop-Grumman or Mikoyan-Gurevich works - just choose you favourite viewing angle, find the appropriate photo and hang it on the wall over your pillow - thereafter avoiding to look on shots with different perspective
It won't hurt the plane, as it surely has a personality

For similarities/dissimilarities between YF-23 and T-50, check this link:
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forum...-T-50-PAK-FA&p=4726457&viewfull=1#post4726457

 

IMO there isn't even anything shameful in copying others' good ideas. To the contrary, you'd be stupid not to. Not saying the Russians necessarily copied from anyone, just that if they did, good for them.

 

The good thing about the laws of physics is they recognize no nationality.

The apple would fall-off the tree at the same rate whether in England or in

Novosibirsk.

There are bound to be similarities when the design parameters are similar.

When that Mig25 landed in Japan, no one was surprised about the design/shape of the plane. The biggest surprises were the way it was constructed and the materials used as well as the use of tubes in the radio gear.

 

And look at the weather! Xabarovsk, snow, ice, etc. Only Russians can fly in this weather

 

Mr. Gates....

 

To be true, flying in winter is easier as the air is more dense => more lift produced

 

To be technical, only in certain conditions.

-Lift is linearly proportional to density, rho (Cl*1/2*rho*A_ref*v^2)
-But so is drag: (Cd*1/2*rho*A_ref*v^2)

I think you may be able to fly slower for a given amount of thrust with higher density because induced drag might be independent of density, but I'll have to look it up later.

 

You are a smart guy, to make something more complicated than it need be.
GLDR
The General Law Of Diminushing Returns.

Go from two men working to three men and see what happens. Then try four men. No need for fancy talk like the above, which in many real-life situations will get a guy scorned or beaten. Yep.

Foremen and workmen knew a lot of stuff before shaman's started interfering with their zen-space.