Self-killing getting back in fashion?

Discussion in 'Warbirds International' started by Red Ant, Feb 17, 2011.

  1. casper1

    casper1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2005
    Messages:
    62
    Location:
    North Carolina,USA
    I would really like for you to post a track of our ghost self killing if you would. I would consider kicking the proven self killer from the sqaud. I myself have been accused but of course the accuser failed to see that I recieved previous damage from the 20mm that was my target.
    I will even consider disbanning the squad if everyone that fly's in the MA thinks it will bring back the 50 to 100 pilots we have lost over the years. Ahh, wait a minute, this squad didn't exist back then. Never mind.
    How about this, I get the sqaud to quit flying all together. Maybe that will bring everyone back. Considering that we probably make up about a good 25% of the arena on good nights, I am not sure if that would be the way to go but is an option.
    Anyway, for now Higgns you can :ass: :ass: :ass:
     
  2. hezey

    hezey Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2010
    Messages:
    2,319
    Location:
    British Columbia, Canada
    We have fun. We communicate with each other. We think a bit before we take on a mission. Not always perfectly done or timed. But it looks pretty good when we put all of our ducks in a row and cap a wide swath of fields. HA.
    We have fun. We may look like some mysterious spooky force that can win fields and contribute to our side, with some sort of arcana, but we are not arcane. There is nothing mysterious or treacherous going on. Those Turks are fantastic, I wonder if they get called wizard or witches or tricksters too?
    I wouldn't fly with Ghosts if there were funky shit happening in this squad either.
    There really are a bunch of regular guys who are playing in this squad, The FlyingGhosts. Just regular guys. I bet those Turks are same, in fact, I would bet all my money [3 bucks].
    I have a feeling that other squads are the same. Just regular guys, having a bit of fun.
    It is just a game.
    Oh, not JUST, I should say, instead,
    It is a game.
    Games are for fun.

    I am happy I joined.
    I can think about other things for a while while we are farting around in the game. I don't care about my failing health [except I don't dare get too excited - so sometimes you might see me, when you are on my tail, shooting at me, you might see me relax the grip on my stick. Yeald to the guy shooting at me. Because if I get to excited I might fucking die from a heart attack.... but I put a damaged plane into autopilot and roll a smoke while some guy is shooting me to pieces, and sometimes he gets pissed off because he followed a dying plane into the dirt.... That is me, not the squad, and you all know I am an average pilot at best].

    Poor Mac, he is an average pilot too. He is having fun, I hope. Sometimes I fly with him even though i figure he is too eager to fly low. I think he will train his reflexes and planning and fly a little higher over time. I don't think he was a buffer before, or very often. Am I right?
    I recall he was a fighter plane guy, he liked fighters.
    I think he is trying to calm himself. Similar to me, I don't want a heart attack from playing a fucking game. I bet he has other, perfect reasons, to have changed his style of play too.

    And so what if he flies low and many times alone.
    Many times I fly low and alone and in a Snoopy, which I love. I get shot down lots, I crash into the dirt lots. But I have fun. And man, it really feels good when some cocky fucker gets too close and confident and I put 300 hundred holes into his ass.
    He may fly away laughing, but I am laughing too.

    I have flown near Mac and watched as he sistimpatically sinks a fleet and nobody comes to help him.
    What does that say about some others in this game?

    Why do I like it when AWL is in game and on same side?
    Why do I fly a snoopy when I can along side him?
    Well, a snoopy and ALW in his P-38 is a deadly little team.

    This rambles.
    Sorry.
     
  3. Higgns

    Higgns Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2010
    Messages:
    168
    Location:
    West Palm Beach.
    Check the ghosts stats casper.

    out of 256 bomber missions

    87 landings....not bad...but not too good especially when you consider that almost half of those landings were when a LI2 captured a field and landed there while bombers and fighters rarely landed.

    130 killed outright......when I checked individual members......-HOST- almost fully populated the "killers" stats.

    2 bails for the entire squad this TOD?.....WTF........easier to ride it down from 15,000 feet and hope ack hits you which denys kill to person who earned it, I guess.

    25 captures?......only way this happens is when you land on an enemy field and exit plane.

    What about the ghosts high buffs who never make it back to base even when not intercepted but rather wing over from 15k feet and dive straight down to either dive in or fly around the base ackstarring?......I have never seen one actually rtb in my entire time here at freehost.

    Apparently, it's easier to die quick and up another plane in the quest to sweep the map and get a reset......usually with not less than 2 vs 1 advantage and sometimes 4 vs 1......or 12 vs 2....etc.

    Might as well play offline in that case.

    Don't use my stats this TOD as I'm flying in 640x480 and can't see any dots beyond d10 though I can see icons.....but not the plane until d10.

    Use my stats from last TOD when I flew as "lagger" if you want to cast stones.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2011
  4. -ALW-

    -ALW- Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2001
    Messages:
    2,087
    Location:
    Minot, North Dakota, USA
    When I've gone to sink ships, I die 98% of the time because of acks pouring out like nuts (which is quite unrealistic I think). I never expect to live so my "killed by" list will be HOST as well. I dive-bomb CV groups. When flying over land fields, I usually fly over acks' range and get shot down sometimes. I've had many times where I didn't quite make it to the field due to a fighter attack which blows off a wing and I can't control the aircraft. Most times my plane will head right into the direction of the field and sometimes if I'm lucky the ack will put a few 44mm rounds into me and it's a PK for the weenies.

    Disable bomb dropping when a plane loses a wing is the best solution I can arrive at. Another thing....maybe ack should ignore a disabled aircraft when it's no longer a threat.

    "bomb drop jammed"
     
  5. Red Ant

    Red Ant Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2002
    Messages:
    4,946
    Location:
    Germany
    Allow me to chime in here, ALW. ;) I agree that ack fire is pretty vicious, but then I suppose it should be. Anyway, sinking ships without getting killed in the process is not actually as difficult as you say. The mistake I see most people do when attacking ships is going in way too low and not diving steeply enough. Personally I've been using an approach I first saw described in the Battlehawks 1942 (and old Amiga game) manual:

    • climb to 12 - 14 kft (manual said 7 kft or higher, but in WB acks are much more lethal, thus you need more alt)
    • pick a target that is on one of the edges of the CV group, not one that is right in the center (less ack fire that way)
    • approach target on a parallel course so that when you're directly above it, it's going the same way as you
    • when you're right on top of it, enter a a near vertical dive ... not quite exactly vertical ... maybe 75 - 80 degrees ... aim at a spot about half a ship's length ahead of the target
    • build up a lot of speed ... you want to be very fast so that after you've dropped your bombs you can zoom back out of the enemy ack umbrella as quickly as possible .... just don't get too fast or your plane will break up (or you won't be able to pull out)
    • at around 7 to 8 kft, drop your bombs
    • then immediately bank in a direction away from the CV group and pull up. You want to continue your dive a little but not at quite this steep of an angle. At the same time you want to be changing your lateral direction in order to make yourself a harder target for the enemy acks. Once you've gained some separation from the enemy acks, use your excess speed to climb back up to altitude.

    If you stick to that, you will by far survive most of your anti-shipping sorties (barring interference from enemy fighters of course :D). Works for me anyway. :)
     
  6. mumble

    mumble Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2007
    Messages:
    1,315
    Location:
    in a bar
    That's a good basic tactic. If you get some practice in, you can get to where you can spiral dive onto your target and make it much more difficult to be hit, which can allow you to dive lower and increase accuracy.
     
  7. looseleaf

    looseleaf Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2006
    Messages:
    5,028
    Spiral dive on a ship in a P-38 ?????? :eek:


    and hit the target? :eek: :eek:


    and live ???? :@prayer:



    :D SIERRA HOTEL !!!!
     
  8. -ALW-

    -ALW- Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2001
    Messages:
    2,087
    Location:
    Minot, North Dakota, USA
    That's good info there ant...thx :) That is similar to what I used to do but, have lost some patience and desire for dive bombing because of the chaotic ack. :turret:
     
  9. casper1

    casper1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2005
    Messages:
    62
    Location:
    North Carolina,USA
    I totally agree with disabling bomb release when a plane recieves critical damage and it would be nice if programming would recognize the real cause of death.
    Example: I start diving on my target when an enemy aircraft shoots off my vator. I am now committed with no control as the ack weenies open fire. My question; is this a self kill or beyond the pilots control? My opinion is that is beyond this game to recognize that the enemy aircraft is actually responsible for the kill. A solution would be to take "killed by ack weenies" out of the game completely. A programming problem my be that there has to be some kind of response when a plane crashes.

    @Higgns
    Please support your statement that all ghosts are self killing and that this is why we have no players in the MA. I can see the stats but this does not tell me that anyone is purposely self-killing. I can tell you that as a whole, we will be attacking a field or CV almost 100% of the time we are playing and that we will get hit by acks more times than those that are hunting us.
    You seem to always make these statements about my sqaud and then lack support for your claims. Now this doesn't bother me as much as it has one of my fellow squad members and freind. He is very well liked and respected by all who play this game and I felt like I needed to defend this pilot if nothing else.
    Again, if you want to bash my sqaud, please support your claim. I too can fly under another nick and go hunting. Fill that tempest up with 100% fuel and my stats will soar but thats just not my style nor my squads.
     
  10. FranzAugust

    FranzAugust Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2002
    Messages:
    1,445
    Location:
    Germany
    sqaud lol
     
  11. casper1

    casper1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2005
    Messages:
    62
    Location:
    North Carolina,USA
    Yeah, Yeah, typo:cheers:
     
  12. Higgns

    Higgns Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2010
    Messages:
    168
    Location:
    West Palm Beach.
    LOL.....I've only flown 8 tempest sorties......ever.

    I did fly one to kill cv and watch someone do same to my cv and ditch twice with an undamaged plane.....he wasn't a ghost.

    But then I see buzbat drop all his bombs, wing over from 14k feet, and dive in or ackstar around a field with a b25 killing defenders while they roll........then I have a problem with it.

    Check the stats of both the squad and the individual players and it's very hard to argue against my point.
     
  13. looseleaf

    looseleaf Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2006
    Messages:
    5,028

    Don't understand; does he dive-in and self kill or is he vulching with a bomber?


    If he's diving and self killing without anyone shooting at him other than ack weenies then it's not very sporting but should not be considered cheating, I think.

    One ditching in order to up again sooner has its drawbacks in stats and time.

    If one zooms down after a a bombing run to strafe and vulch... well that's where long range high powered acks come in....

    Now if someone actually gets of the ground while he's vulching and as he is getting his ass shot off he goes into the acks to deny you the victory.....
    THAT is CHICKEN SHIT action worthy of contempt and banishment.:nono:
     
  14. casper1

    casper1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2005
    Messages:
    62
    Location:
    North Carolina,USA
    I would bet Buzbat finished his bomb runs and dove in an attempt to keep the defenders from gaining alt for the 2nd buff or reaching the LI that was near. The acks were probably dead and the field was closed or near closed.
    I'm sorry Higgns but I just don't see how this is self killing or chicken shit. To me it just looks like he is trying to cap a field. He just didn't fly low to an enemy field and circle it waiting for fighters to up. He didn't up in the B25 to defend a field. You state that he dropped his bombs and then dove in to ackstar around the field. I am almost certain that it was a field that he and his team was trying to cap.
    I just do not understand what you consider to be self killing and ackstarring or how the stats on the scorepage can tell you that someone is a self killer. The stats do show the "killed by" data which I am assumming is the only place you can see killed by host. As of now Buzbat has six "killed by" showing with none of them by host. I have six with two by host. Keen shows six with none by host. Reuben shows six with one by host. Higgns shows four with one by host.
    I just don't understand your claims or proof that all Ghosts are self killers and that we are partly responsible for the lack of play in the MA.
     
  15. Higgns

    Higgns Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2010
    Messages:
    168
    Location:
    West Palm Beach.
    It was early in the tour when no b25 had pilot controlled guns.

    I've been without web host for files a long time so I will take care of that and start posting tracks rather than argue here.

    You will know when coward track thread comes back up top.
     
  16. -ALW-

    -ALW- Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2001
    Messages:
    2,087
    Location:
    Minot, North Dakota, USA
    I don't fly the Tempest in the MA either at all. Just makes the game too easy.

    What buzbat does? Actually, that's what I do all the time whenever possible. :D I have no problem with that. :mafia: Each person does things the way they want for particular reasons. Why do we have to do things your way? :dunno:
     
  17. -ALW-

    -ALW- Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2001
    Messages:
    2,087
    Location:
    Minot, North Dakota, USA
    So, you want to be the most unliked person in the forum and arenas at the same time? I pity your participation. You may get banned and kicked off yourself. Get over yourself dude, really. :deal:
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2011
  18. Higgns

    Higgns Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2010
    Messages:
    168
    Location:
    West Palm Beach.
    You should pity yourself for being fooled by a couple of guys with multiple arena nicks who are obviously making you believe that so many more have a problem with me than actually do.

    Believe me......the true number of people angry with higgns is far less than half of what you believe it to be because of this.

    If someone were to post a spreadsheet with IP addresses related to arena nicknames, you would be very surprised.

    So next time dave comes in and starts the smack talking unprovoked, leaves and logs back in as depnds or another name to continue the hating, please remember that one single person is many times responsible for the many "players angry with higgns" even during a single afternoon.

    Once he starts, mob mentality quickly follows.

    Multiply a couple of haters like him who have multiple names and you quickly end up two guys who are responsible for a 10 seemingly different incidents of smack talking in the arena during an afternoon.

    Remember also that any hating of me was provoked by my pointing out a selfkill...........that's my threshold......a selfbomb or selfkill.

    Once activated, I remember who it is and skewer him any time I see this behavior.

    Every day, I reset and say nothing until such behavior is observed yet.....every single day, I see the same diving in with bombs, spending themselves on the side of a ship, ditching 100 feet from a field in an undamaged plane.....etc.

    If they suck, I let them know they suck

    If they stop sucking, you don't hear anything from me.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2011
  19. mumble

    mumble Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2007
    Messages:
    1,315
    Location:
    in a bar
    Actually, you are kind of an asshole. :shuffle:

    Just let it go and don't be quite so aggressive in looking for the fight you want. Let the fight you want come to you. To clarify, if you want a dogfight, hop in a fighter and buzz around enemy fields hunting for those who will up and fight you. Desperate for a buff kill? Go and seek them over their fields. If they're selfkilling, go look for your fight in some other area of the map.

    There's not a damn thing you can do about it until the developers do something about it, so just drop the comments about how selfkillers suck and focus more on finding a proper solution to the problem. I've read several proposals for a solution, and I even thought I saw some developer feedback somewhere about it. Obviously, this hasn't translated into new code yet, but I had a hope that a beginning of a solution was happening.
     
  20. Higgns

    Higgns Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2010
    Messages:
    168
    Location:
    West Palm Beach.
    I do plenty of waiting for the fight.

    I waited over f17 for 3 separate 110 missions at 70% fuel.

    Had to land twice and, on the third mission just before I ran out of fuel, I found the buff I was waiting for.

    I was accused of cheating.

    LOL

    And mumble.....you're the guy with the multiple names who I was referencing in the post you quoted so I understand the nature of your calling me names.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2011