Up and coming.... ideas for 1.70?

Discussion in 'Warbirds International' started by -ALW-, Nov 10, 2011.

  1. bazura

    bazura Well-Known Member

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    This thread is going the way of a FM discussion, and that is bad because it's such a big topic the rest of suggestions for 1.70 will get buried under.

    So here is some more flak for -exec- :):

    First small fixes that very humbly I suggest:

    1-Enable "real triggers" for the full range of Fw 190 Antons. Presently, when you get 190a-6 after a-4, you lose this ability. Why it isn't the default (basic fighter) setup, I don't understand... but at least it would be nice to have it as an option! The outer 20mm cannon ammo is scarce. Any sensible pilot would want to save it for the appropiate occasion with a separate trigger... on a-6 and a-8 too. Fw 190 tactics rely too much on snapshot to disregard this.

    2- 109 20mm ammo loads:
    f-4: 150 rpg
    g-2: 200 rpg
    g-6: 150 rpg
    g-14: 200 rpg
    g-10: 150 rpg

    Something here I don't understand :D. Also... in aces high gondolas have 140 rpg instead of 120 (sorry I had to mention it).

    Talking about gondolas, according to this translated finnish manual of the 109g-6:

    In WBFH you fire all cannons with "the button".

    Thank you for taking time to read this!
     
  2. looseleaf

    looseleaf Well-Known Member

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    I thought trigger selections are a joystick control option in the set-up/ config page, no?


    Anyway before this thread goes all over the place:

    I will say again and sorry to bother anyone with my laments;

    What this game needs first and foremost is a one button all-inclusive install for Win7/Vista 32 and 64 bit versions!

    There will be no new people joining this game if they cannot install it on the newer systems!

    Thank you all for the great work and sacrifices!

    :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
     
  3. looseleaf

    looseleaf Well-Known Member

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    NO! It was NOT you, you were the same or getting better!

    Someone, persons unknown changed something in the game to the benefit of the Jap planes or to the determent of the I153 ... :mad:
     
  4. -exec-

    -exec- FH Consultant

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    i proposed this feature because mg/ff of a-3 and a-4 has short burst.
    but people voted triggers to be left as before.
    i only managed to add "real triggers" as an additional weapon kit...

    with four mg 151/20 the problem is not such sensible, so a-6 and a-8 were not considered for this modification.

    this was flamed multiple times.
    f-4 has documented quantity of 150.
    in g-2 the problem was solved by placing the chain into the wing and it became 200.
    in g-6 more wide pneumatics took place from ammo, so it changed quantity back to 150. this is in effect for g-14 as well.
    i don't know why g-10 got 200 rds.
    i don't know whether g-10 had 150 either.
    i must read something.

    the quote is not clear.
     
  5. bazura

    bazura Well-Known Member

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    Thank you exec for your explanations and for pushing for the most realistic 190 trigger setup.

    I don't want to be a pest, but as this issue will fall into oblivion anyway, I want to make my last points, for the record:

    1. 190 A-6. The difference of firing-time between inner and outer cannons is about 75%, so not small (in A-4 it's about 165%). If my guess is right, 8 ammo menu slots is the maximum, A-6 uses 7, so there is room for "real triggers" setup.

    2. 190 A-8. outer cannon fire time is about 9,5". In 190a-4 about 7" Not a big difference (36%) IMO. If we compare relative differences between inner and outer cannons, A-8 and A-4 are even more alike: 9% difference. In any case there is no room for "real triggers" in A-8 ammo slots as they are now, and community doesn't want it as default, so this is a moot point. However, I would like point out that the logic that led to the implementation of "real triggers" in A-4 is even more justified in 190 A-8/R2. Only ~6" firing time of 30mm cannons and a inner-outer firing-time difference of 283%. More diverging ballistics too.

    3. You may notice that the "real triggers" setup in 190 is consistent with the aforementioned Bf 109 3-cannon trigger setup: save the valious scarce ammo in a separate trigger to use in favorable occasions.
     
  6. bazura

    bazura Well-Known Member

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    Now, for more important issues to keep WBFH on choogling:

    Nº 1 step, as already pointed out, is to, in summary, help eventual players get to the MA. Once there tough, many times I think the ambient is not very inviting...

    5 years ago at "peak hours" there was no lack of action to be found. Now though, 15 pilots online is high numbers. Most of the times I guess it's more like 6 people or less. Can the game be fun and engaging with 6 people? I think so (even with less), but only if they fly in a small area where chances are they will meet, and this is many times not the case. I think the server should help pilots meet when the numbers are very low to low. Forward the newbies (and not newbies) to where the action is. Else they will get fustrated and leave. Some debatable ideas for when the numbers are low:

    1. Enable more liberal radar settings. I fear this could alienate some of the current players as I have discovered, to my amazement, many of the players left enjoy the most capturing undefended fields, and for them opposition in the form of fighters is not welcome.

    Maybe the sever could be hacked to display a "sector radar" a la Aces High. For example, some dots forming a perfect square or a line could simbolize "activity in the area" without revealing exact positions.

    2. Disable certain fields.

    3. Make the server send messages about the enemy activity. For example: "Field Fx is being attacked"

    4. Restrict jeep usage even more.

    5. Enhance the ".field" command when in flight. Make it tell you how much time for field open and what will up first. That's what a buddy would tell you anyway, but in the absence of buddies...

    6. Have a command that summarizes fields statuses. E.g. ".field gold"

    7. It could be nice to have a permanent way to declare your "away from keyboard" status. That way you manifest you want to play in a certain timeframe and eventually will, inviting other players to join but making clear to your buddies you are not able to respond, and are not ignoring them.

    8. ... (Whatever in the way of enhancing gameplay for an arena with very low numbers)

    ---

    Unrelated to the above:

    I gave a second thought about bomber formations (if they are at all possible). Maybe they don't make much sense with the current ballistics model. Also, they would give bombers too much defensive firepower for gameplay purposes. They could be justified though, in the case of single torpedo bombers. 3 torpedo attack wouldn't be unbalancing, I think (6 maybe would).
     
  7. -exec-

    -exec- FH Consultant

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    checked again... %)

    Code:
    plane		weapon		pos		rds	IRL rpm	IRL sec	FH rpm	FH sec	std		realtrig
    Fw 190 A-3; A-4	MG 17		nose-sync	900	980	55	938	58	primary		primary
    Fw 190 A-3; A-4	MG 151/20	root-sync	200	650	18	652	[COLOR="Orange"]18[/COLOR]	secondary	primary
    Fw 190 A-3; A-4	MG FF/M		cons-free	60	540	7	541	[COLOR="Orange"]7[/COLOR]	secondary	secondary
    									
    Fw 190 A-6	MG 17		nose-sync	900	980	55	938	58	primary		primary - proposed status quo
    Fw 190 A-6	MG 151/20	root-sync	200	650	18	652	[COLOR="YellowGreen"]18[/COLOR]	secondary	primary - proposed status quo
    Fw 190 A-6	MG 151/20	cons-free	140	820	10	822	[COLOR="YellowGreen"]10[/COLOR]	secondary	primary - proposed status quo
    									
    Fw 190 A-8	MG 131		nose-sync	400	780	31	789	30	primary		primary - proposed status quo
    Fw 190 A-8	MG 151/20	root-sync	250	650	23	652	[COLOR="Red"]23[/COLOR]	secondary	primary - proposed change
    Fw 190 A-8	MG 151/20	cons-free	125	820	9	822	[COLOR="Red"]9[/COLOR]	secondary	secondary - proposed status quo
    									
    Fw 190 A-8/R2	MG 131		nose-sync	400	780	31	789	30	primary		primary - proposed status quo
    Fw 190 A-8/R2	MG 151/20	root-sync	250	650	23	652	[COLOR="Red"]23[/COLOR]	secondary	primary - proposed change
    Fw 190 A-8/R2	MK 108		cons-free	55	600	6	600	[COLOR="Red"]6[/COLOR]	secondary	secondary - proposed status quo
    
    i see what are you talking about - red pairs.
    i don't know why the bug with Fw 190 A-8/R2 sneaked in.
    for the first time we released /R2 i insisted MG 151 to be primary, separated from secondary MK 108.

    the problem with basic A-8 is visible too.
    i'll talk with fas and bimbom.

    however, with A-6 i guess the more convenient configuration is status quo (green numbers)
    but we will definitely will add "real triggers" as a 8th kit of A-6.
     
  8. -ALW-

    -ALW- Well-Known Member

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    No1 objective of all, yes. Need to locate those who would GLADLY jump in the game but have NO IDEA THIS PLACE EXISTS. When I think about 370,000,000+ people who live in the USA, there HAS to be 30, 50, 100, or 200 people that WANT to fly here if they KNEW, but have NO IDEA this place exists! Imagine having 100+ users on here...wow. I think many veterans would come in for a visit! There are many young folks who were 8 years old then, in 2001 who are now playing online games but, MAYBE, just MAYBE they would see this place and say....ohh wow...what is this? Hogie???

    1.Un-defended field capture has annoyed me as well. Something that could be done offline in a one-sided attack. Has to be boring as all get out to do something like that. I just don't participate at all in that activity except to shoot down every bomber that comes near, just to see each one log off afterwords.....LAME. I suggested the same thing. I think WB is quite limited but, could be done in some way says exec.

    2. That is an interesting idea, rather than having new small/tiny maps created, just disable some fields. Preferably the big fields ;)

    3. That shouldn't be too difficult to add. I was used to that when I flew in Air Warrior. No more attacks unnoticed only because someone isn't seeing the attacker on radar or looking outside the windows of the tower. Would be a nice addition. I came up with an idea on that as well but, radar marks on the map would take care of that as well.

    4. Hmm....disabling jeeps. That would be an interesting idea.

    5. Maybe. Would be a good trade off for the buff pilots losing their cloaking in the game.

    6. See 5.

    7. That is something that would be nice to have as well. In Air Warrior we would just change our "handle" from something like "=RAF= Curlz" to "AFK till 9:30" so users or squad mates logging in could see us in the list and know what was going on.
    [​IMG]

    8. Yep, we need more numbers.
    I flew mainly in the Pacific arenas. EA took the Small Pacific arenas out, changed aircraft modeling horribly (morons). Went from all packed arenas (up to 800) to what you see below.
    Nov 18, 2000
    [​IMG]
     
  9. looseleaf

    looseleaf Well-Known Member

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    Doesn't matter how many people know WBFH exist. Especially if they do not have the computer, software and ability to download and make the game function.

    Sorry but here I go again: Number One priority is to have a one-step super simplified download and runnable cross-platform game.

    I am quite certain that if WBFH would have such a software available there would be MILLIONS of people who would even BUY a CD/DVD or download. Yes, pay money!

    Think about it devs, admins and owners of WBFH:

    The "other guys" (aka: evil capitalist using fascists systems for monetary gains) give away the software so they can hook you into paying for the on line play...

    The "good guys" could make a CD/DVD/download available at a very low price just to cover expenses, say $5 or 10 dollars/euros plus shipping and offer FREE ON LINE PLAY and still be heroes of the internet.

    Yes, you guys can be Humanitarians AND millionaires at the same time, without moral conflict.


    There is nothing wrong with responsible capitalism.....
    :D
     
  10. -exec-

    -exec- FH Consultant

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    for 1.70:

    1) Tempest: early compressibility fixed.
    2) Typhoon/Tempest: longitudinal axis vibration fixed.
    3) A6M21b, A6M32, A6M52b: dive limits decreased dramatically.
    4) A6M21b: dive characteristics changed to slow acceleration. after testing of 21b, the method will be implemented for 32 and 52b.
    5) P-38G-10-LO: forward armour glass added
    6) Bf 110 C-4/BN, LaGG-3-66, I-153: flaps bug fixed
    7) Fw 190 A-6: added real triggers config.
    8) Fw 190 A-8/R2 has triggers changed to "real triggers" configuration
    9) La-5, -5F, -5FN, -7: virage became easier.

    misc.bin for testers will follow soon.

    questions not analysed yet:
    1) SM.79 torpedoes drop envelope. reported that within 200mph/200ft they sink. not tested. not fixed then.
    2) sea-mines of Ju 88 A-4 and DB-3F: reported swimming. not fixed.
    3) P-38J-15-LO, P-38L-1-LO: roll not tested. not fixed as well.
     
  11. bazura

    bazura Well-Known Member

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    Thank you exec & co. Your efforts are appreciated. Sorry about my awkward explanation of the 190's guns issue that, oddly enough, has been more effective than the one 5 years ago :D (I didn't remember about it)

    ---

    Another measure to increase popularity of the game could be, again when numbers are low (or maybe altogether), disable the "strategic targets". I've seen several instances of players reportedly leaving the arena because of the effect of the destruction of strategic targets and the much increased downtimes they bring. They give too much an advantage and detract from the game with the usual game rosters.

    It is not very frequent, but when it happens it makes people leave for real, so I think it is important.

    ---

    Recently I read about SM.79 in wikipedia.

    It doesn't feel that way in WBFH, does it?
     
  12. -exec-

    -exec- FH Consultant

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    haven't you read the same about ju 88 a-17?

    i haven't. just did not search for it.

    i have read that with an experienced pilot, db-3t (il-4t) can take two torpedoes too, but usually they preferrably carried 1*torp+4*RS-132 (sic!).

    anyways, bombers are of the same class with 2500-3000kg limit, i don't see the reason to have troubles with 2*940kg(soviet), or with 2*800kg(german).

    as sparviero has 1250kg of load (i guess it's just bad bay design), it indeed can have a hard time with 2*905

    but... is it really critical? :shuffle:
    and isn't wiki a "risky" source for such facts?
     
  13. -ALW-

    -ALW- Well-Known Member

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    Stability of all the P-38s are still odd. Within loops or turns, they will stall under 300mph and attempt to spin. 1.68 modeling of stalls/spins was good, meaning the P-38 did not stall/spin like a single engine aircraft, but like the P-38 behaviors as reported and discussed in flight operations instructions provided for pilots during WWII.

    All P-38s will fight turns regardless of flap positions at speeds less than 300mph and stall buzzer will remain constant in the slightest loop maneuver and wants to spin. Maneuver flap helps in turns but, why a stall/spin condition at speeds over the 90mph stall speed condition. It wants to stall/spin like a yak/p39/F6F.

    The 1.68 models of the P-38G, J, L was very true in performance imho to statements made by test pilots and instructional documents/videos.

    Payload options for the P-38s included 4 500 lb bombs, as it is known they were used extensively for ground attack. Could that payload option be provided as well?
    Also, will it be possible to model single operation of the P-38 to replicate single engine fighter operation of other twin engine aircraft...such as 110/410/mossie ?

    Ok...thanks for considering my quick report.
     
  14. looseleaf

    looseleaf Well-Known Member

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    Here:

    http://www.aviation-history.com/savoia-marchetti/sm79.html

    http://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/detail.asp?aircraft_id=294

    http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/AWA1/601-700/walk665_Sparviero_Raphael/walk665.htm

    http://www.rlm.at/cont/gal07_e.htm

    http://www.wwiivehicles.com/italy/aircraft/bomber/savoia-marchetti-sm-79-sparviero.asp

    http://www.tgplanes.com/planfile.asp?idplane=121
     
  15. Mcloud

    Mcloud Well-Known Member

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    have 1 file download and intall. fix planes and then dont touch them.
     
  16. -exec-

    -exec- FH Consultant

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    1) none of these links about problems of ju 88 a-17 with two torpedoes.
    2) none of these links about problems of sm.79/ii with two torpedoes either.
     
  17. mumble

    mumble Well-Known Member

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    1. A kill is a kill no matter where they ditch, even if it's on their own runway with the gear up.

    2. Self bombers credit the enemy aircraft nearest them with a kill.
     
  18. -ALW-

    -ALW- Well-Known Member

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    1. This must be stemming out of previous experience of frustration in combat.

    One thing I found interesting in Aces High lately was that your kills in a fighter would only be counted if you landed on the runway, and would also be reported on the common radio. It states what you were flying and how many kills you landed. Putting your plane down anywhere else or bailing out yields no kill credits. So, in there, bailing over your field, ditching near or on your field don't allow you to receive kill credits. Also, there are no hit reports on enemy aircraft. So, blind deflection shooting is a matter of accuracy and luck, rather than just pulling the trigger till you see the host message about your bullets hitting it's target.

    2. This is something I don't think they are going to remedy.
     
  19. mumble

    mumble Well-Known Member

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    Remove jeep ack? If not removed, give 12mm to jeep instead of 88mm auto laser cannon?
     
  20. airfax

    airfax Well-Known Member

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    Lose the stalls. Start with that. Ease down on the realism. Make the game more playable.

    Or carry on with the "hard-core-simmer" -line. Result of that is visible nowadays.

    :D