109 outturns, outclimbs, outperforms P-51

You would be correct if the 109 in question was a G-6 for example, late war 109s had much more HP, & were at certain altitudes capable of outperforming P-51. Hartmann demonstrated this by outrunning a whole pack of P-51s, ( not just 1), over Romania. It should also be noted that the P-51s being over Romania would have burnt off half their fuel load, therefore the assertion that perhaps the P-51s were overloaded, carrying a full load of fuel etc cannot be made.


P-51's original purpose was as an Army cooperation low level machine, it was only later developed as a longrange escort machine.


With the introduction of the North American Mustang I with the RAF Army Co-operation Squadrons in February 1942, the new fighter began combat missions as a low-altitude reconnaissance and ground-support aircraft.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_A-36_Apache


Could the Germans develop such a longrange fighter? I would imagine so. Spitfire with wing tanks could go to Berlin & Back, Corsair had similiar range to P-51, therefore it isn't any great feat of engineering to add extra tanks.



Flight Report FW 190 D-9/210001
http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/fw190/fw190d9test.html

Long range fuselage tank.

 

I don't know the specifics of that engagement but the point could also be made that BECAUSE they were over Romania, the P-51 pilots knew that they could ill afford to burn off tons of fuel in a futile stern chase. That, and 3 P-51s aren't any faster than just one.

 

That argument can't be made or supported since they gave it everything they had to chase him & try to shoot him down. One of the P-51 pilots involved made several firing passes at Hartmann, an Ace with 11 kills named Goebel. His account of the chase confirms this chase was pursued very aggressively.


As to range, the Japanese did even better than the P-51 with the Zero.

Range with drop tank:
A6M2: 1,940 miles (3,110km)
http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/IJARG/a6mzero.htm

 

This is an important comment....which brings me to flight modeling in game.

Most of the flight modeling innacuracy I see in sims has to do with latewar plane designs not modeling in the compromises needed to enhance a specific facet of performance.

 

Table based FM in this. Limited. I think sims that use half decent algorithmic FM can do better and you haven't been lucky enough to use one in GameWorld. [Neither have I]
I am not arguing.
I am interested in this thread.

 

Perhaps you should read "One Man Air Force" by Capt. Dom Gentile 19.83 victories WW2 ace.

He states that the P-51B out-climbed the 109 (possibly an E or G model? )circa 1944. There is a famous battle where he shot down 3 109 in one sortie, 3 109 jumping him.

Also a famous battle where he out maneuvered a 190 in his P-47 at ground level having run out of ammo until the German plane ran-out of ammo as well. The account is very intense.

 

Familiar with Gentile. & outmaneuvering is more a function of the pilot than the machine.

Ivan Kozhedub
no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist.

http://www.historynet.com/aviation-history-interview-with-world-war-ii-soviet-ace-ivan-kozhedub.htm



Climb... the Society of Experimental Test Pilots

CLIMB brake release to 10,000 ft.
Hellcat quickest at 4min 15 seconds, followed by the FG-1 at 4min 44 sec.
However, the F6F required 100 lbs of continuous right rudder making it
very tiring to operate. The P-47 trailed the FG-1 by a few seconds. The
P-51 came in last.

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?topic=261798.0


G-2, Finnish test.

Climb to 5000m in ca. 4 min 6 secs. 5000 meters=16404 feet.

http://kurfurst.org/Performance_tests/109G_MT215/109G2_MT215_en.html



In other words, G-2 climbs to 16.000 feet in about the same time the other 4 climb to 10.000 feet. Checking on diff between G-2 & G-6.

 

Have you seen this BH ?


http://www.scientistsandfriends.com/aircraft.html


http://www.tsj.net/avstats/losses.html


http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/aviation/messerschmitt-me-109-victories-losses-30637.html


http://www.ww2.dk/



http://www.fiddlersgreen.net/models/aircraft/Messerschmitt-Me109.html

 

Most of it no. Some interesting stuff here & there. The 1st link has errors in it. P-51 speed is wrong, & Marseilles did not shoot down 17 Spitfires on 1 day.

 

Wow, so much BS amassed in so little space.