Masters of the V-12

Discussion in 'Warbirds International' started by black hornet, Mar 10, 2012.

  1. black hornet

    black hornet Well-Known Member

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    He is impressed by what he’s seen of German World War II engines, having recently worked on a BMW radial from a Focke-Wulf Fw 190 fighter. “Their technology was so far ahead of ours at the time, it was easy to see,”

    http://www.airspacemag.com/flight-today/cit-wilkinson.html?c=y&page=1


    a Merlin has six times as many parts as an Allison.


    He prefers Allisons. “The English engines…,” he shakes his head. “Full of lousy rubber seals and way too many pieces. They’re like Jaguars burning out at the side of the road all the time. I don’t know why we’re still doing Merlins. There’s so much labor in ’em.”
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2012
  2. looseleaf

    looseleaf Well-Known Member

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    British technology in aircraft engines in WW2 was a joke.

    Germans were good but nothing beat the Americans.

    Much of the American technology was still secret years after the war.

    American metallurgy was far ahead of everyone in WW2.

    Germans could not believe their spies when it was brought to their attention Americans were building bombers faster than Germans could build cannons.

    Research "Willow Run" B-24 factory.

    :rolleyes:
     
  3. hezey

    hezey Well-Known Member

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    American technology?
    Nope. Technology is not secret.
    There are no 'Offical secrets act' in USA, the Jews there made sure of it when the nuclear recipe was displayed for all to see [Rosenberg]. What those two Yankee Jews betrayed was a lesson for all.
    A technology.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2012
  4. Red Ant

    Red Ant Well-Known Member

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    Hehe, this guy is obviously here to troll.
     
  5. hezey

    hezey Well-Known Member

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    I thought I was in the "The USA is full of bullshit" thread. I guess I could [deleted] it.
     
  6. black hornet

    black hornet Well-Known Member

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    Yes, presenting engineers views is for sure the unmistakeable definition of trolling. Always the predictable strategy, dislike someone's views, call em a name, very creative.

    I personally can't imagine why anyone would visit a Warbird site & be uninterested in the powerplants that went in em.


    The weak points of the Merlin did get mostly worked out by 48 with the Northstars.


    Between 1948 and ’50, Rolls-Royce turned out the strongest and most durable Merlins ever for Canadair-built Douglas DC-4s known as Northstars. These 1,760-horsepower engines could pound away for hours without missing a beat, and they made use of every trick Rolls had learned about building durable V-12s. They are the gold standard, and if you want a racer, they are what you need.

    http://www.airspacemag.com/flight-today/cit-wilkinson.html?c=y&page=2


    But I don't believe these went into P-51 D's in Korea where the gaskets problem persisted.


    The Squadron's bad luck continued when, on 29 February 1951, Sergeant K. Royal (A68-704) was killed as he attempted to force land his Mustang after it lost oil pressure during a patrol.
    http://www.kmike.com/oz/77/KOREAOPS.htm
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2012
  7. looseleaf

    looseleaf Well-Known Member

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    Oh yes, Merlins are quite good. Right after some guy in California gets nearly $100K for making them work... :D


    and using Allison connecting rods..... :D

    Even that guy in California states he cannot understand the mania about Merlins and they should be using Allison engines.


    Humm... 1948.. I think that was just a little bit after WW2?

    Funny why Howard Hughes, who had nearly floating point money for the Reno air races (he even bought a Me262 to race and they told him piston engines only) never considered buying German V-12s to race....?



    Sure Canadians using English engines, maybe there was some discount in the pricing being part of the Commonwealth at the time?

    The best transport aircraft during the war and well afterwards was the DC-3, using radial engines.

    American radial engines were second to none and vastly superior in technology and design.

    Do some reading on Pratt & Whitney and Wright radial engines.
     
  8. black hornet

    black hornet Well-Known Member

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    Already done plenty reading on radials, thanks anyways. Pratt & Whitney very reliable, but radials not as aerodynamic, always a tradeoff as they say.

    The guy in the article rebuilds Merlins, therefore knows more about em than us here, that includes you looseleaf.

    Yes 1948 was 'after' WW 2, congrats! you got it!
     
  9. looseleaf

    looseleaf Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I think you got it Red, this guy has some definite anal retention issues.



    :D
     
  10. looseleaf

    looseleaf Well-Known Member

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    Ha ha ha... blackie... so you admit all that improvement in 48 was a bit too late to win the war...

    I might wager I know a little bit more about V-12s than you...:D
     
  11. black hornet

    black hornet Well-Known Member

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    Er, the Alllies did win the war Looseleaf, I don't think you know anything about V-12s or the war.
     
  12. looseleaf

    looseleaf Well-Known Member

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    I don't think you know much at all. Perhaps you should get out of doors and go talk to some test pilots of WW2 before they all die.

    Go out to the battlefields. Get to some of the vintage air shows.

    Help-out with some of the crews, get to know some of the war bird owners.

    Spend a few years with some Phds and a Nobel prize winner or two in physics.

    Read everything you can that was classified until 1954 about aircraft and metallurgy.

    Who knows, you might get into a little trouble for knowing too much, or guessing to much...

    you may even find out that the statement Hez made; that "there are no secrets in technology ". Especially to those who can think.

    Now good night, sweet prince....

    :zzz:
     
  13. Higgns

    Higgns Well-Known Member

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    Germany and Russia had direct injected radials.
     
  14. looseleaf

    looseleaf Well-Known Member

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    Tires or engines ?

    :D

    Yes, Mercedes Benz had direct injected straight 8 motors in the 1930s.

    "silver arrows" ?
     
  15. T-U-R-B-O

    T-U-R-B-O Member

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  16. black hornet

    black hornet Well-Known Member

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    Know leagues more than you Looseleaf, & what you pretend is knowledge is fantasy. 16.000 Italian Torps bought & used by the Germans, US metalurgy in 262 turbines. A good laugh I suppose its good for, but thats about all.
     
  17. looseleaf

    looseleaf Well-Known Member

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    You are an idiot. I said that the Germans did NOT have the technology for high temp alloys that the Americans had.

    Therefore their jet engines had maximum total life times of 50 hours or less.


    Yes, the Germans bought aerial torpedoes and thousands of magnetic triggers and torpedoes from SI and Fiume/Whitehead during WW2.

    Yes, the Germans had plans for the building of 5,000 G55 and were going to phase-out the 109, Even Kurt Tank tested the G55.

    One German officer in the test group told Goering that the G55 was the best of all Axis single seat fighters.

    The only good laugh here is you. You speak like some anal retentive 12 year old.

    Learn to spell too.

    :D
     
  18. black hornet

    black hornet Well-Known Member

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    Nope, here's what you said...


    All the German u-boat were sunk with a small American radio tube.

    All the great success of the German u-boat were due to an Italian torpedo company, SIS of LaSpezia who sold 16,000 units to the Germans.

    One of the greatest secrets of WW2 was the VT fuse.

    American technology in metallurgy made jet turbines possible, not British nor German.


    A good chuckle guaranteed.
     
  19. looseleaf

    looseleaf Well-Known Member

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    Yes, "UNITS".

    "Great Success", in the beginning of the U-boat war.

    Then as the Americans and Brits developed a system for dealing with the U-boats that the Germans had no idea, they were slaughtered.

    Yes, that little radio tube is credited with destroying the U-boat attacks.

    Go back and read that little fact: only 25% of U-boat men survived the war. About 30,000 of 40,000 DEAD.

    Go back and read what the German torpedo production was per month.

    Remember that little period when German made torpedoes were not exploding? That little battle in Norway?


    Hey, no more comment about the 262 engines ?

    Well... did you ever touch a real 262 engine?

    Ever run your magnet onto the turbine blades?

    Well if you do, guess what? They're going to STICK !

    and that means NO tungstun or poor tungstun alloy.

    AND YES, LITTLE BOY, I TOUCHED A REAL 262 ENGINE AND THE BLADES WERE NOT HIGH TEMP ALLOY STEEL LIKE AMERICANS HAD.


    NOW STFU !!!! with all due respect, please.

    :D
     
  20. black hornet

    black hornet Well-Known Member

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    Yes, where is the source for your 262 engine claims?

    U-boats were killed by a number of technical advances, which took time. Radio df'ing,( otherwise known as triangulation), breaking German codes & Hedgehogs. You don't know squat.


    The projectile sank 3-times faster than a depth charge, making evasivion much harder for the U-boat.

    http://www.uboat.net/allies/technical/hedgehogs.htm


    In 1942 the allies began to install Huff-Duff on convoy escort ships, enabling them to get much more accurate triangulation fixes on U-boats transmitting from over the horizon, beyond the range of radar. This allowed hunter-killer ships and aircraft to be dispatched at high speed in the direction of the U-boat, which could be illuminated by radar if still on the surface and by ASDIC if it had dived. It was the operation of these technologies in combination which eventually turned the tide against the U-boats.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-frequency_direction_finding_(electronics)



    Communication was the keyword and the U-boats used Enigma to send messages to co-ordinate their attacks. After some initial hard times, Bletchley Park broke the naval codes almost continuously.

    Decreasing effectiveness of his U-boats made Admiral Donitz suspicious and, although reassured by German intelligence that Enigma was secure, he insisted on improving the Enigma's security. Early in 1942 the famous 4-wheel machine was introduced in the Kriegmarine and the complicated 'Shark' codes caused a big crisis at Bletchley Park. The Kriegmarine referred to the spring of 1942 as the "Happy Times" because the Allied forces were unable to decipher the codes and the U-boats were able to continue sinking ships without much interference.

    and by the end of 1943, another fifty of these Bombes became operational in the US Navy. More on the codebooks can be found on the enigma procedures and Kurzsignalen pages.

    The tide of the U-boat war had turned. Except for some brief periods, the entire communication system was intercepted by a large number of listening stations, and the message were broken in Bletchley Park, which employed over 7000 workers at its peak. With the positions of the U-boats unveiled, Allied ships could now evade the U-boats and the Allies actively hunted for U-boats.

    http://users.telenet.be/d.rijmenants/en/enigma.htm


    There you go, yet another free education.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2012