This might tell something about RL "otto" effectiviness.

This might tell something about RL "otto" effectiviness.

Bristol Blenhiem


WINTER WAR: 423 sorties, 3168 bombs (131,061 kg), 20,700 MG shots and 5 combat victories.

CONTINUATION WAR: 2768 sorties and 3 combat victories.

LAPLAND WAR: 157 sorties.

Total 8 air to air kills in 3348 sorties.

Average 4140 rounds fired for 1 kill.

 

those stats work when there is 24 bomber in a formation, WB doesn't have the player b ase to make otto that weak

 

how about that

http://www.geocities.com/skrzydla/304/304Story.html

section about costal command from september 1941

 

well i have seen alot more accurate ottos lately. and if it doesn't get to a reasonable level, i guess all elite will be using it too. i guess what is good for the gander is also good for the goose too. i mean it is crazy just pass near a ju52 and pinged up you will get. same and even worse with bombers. heck even stukas and 110's do a number on ya i still kill them most of the time, but i find it hard to believe that the gunner could hit anything at all while a ju88 dives trying to get his guns on you.

 

Hi Gahis,

>those stats work when there is 24 bomber in a formation, WB doesn't have the player b ase to make otto that weak

Nonsense.

For much of the time, the Finns had less than 20 Blenheims in service, spread out over several squadrons on different airfields. It wasn't unusual for as few as three aircraft to operate as an offensive formation.

By the way, formations of 24 bombers where attacked by formations of up to 36 fighters, and I don't see that Warbirds has the player base for that.

But the most important fact you forget: BOMBERS WERE SHOT OUT OF THE SKY EVEN WHEN FLYING FORMATION!

You might not have heard of the Schweinfurth raids when literally hundreds of heavy bombers in massed formations, bristling with machine gun positions, penetrated deep into Germany without escortign fighters. They were met by an inferior number of Luftwaffe fighters, who shot down round about 60 of the heavy bombers while losing roughly 20 aircraft of their own. Just to make sure this was not a misunderstanding, the USAAF staged a second raid on Schweinfurth a few weeks later, which gave about the same results.

So, to sum it up: Gunners didn't help the bombers.

"Otto" in Warbirds is a gameplay concession to appease the bomber pilots at the expense of the fighter pilots.

It's otto's fault that we don't see any proper bomb raids, but low-flying singletons who cross the map without regard for tactics to pork fighter fuel on one field after the other.

If you ever wondered why bomber pilots have no friends in Warbirds - that might be the reason!

Fix otto, cooperate with other bomber pilots, invite fighter pilots to escort, and you'll see that the game gets much more realistic.

I don't think I've ever turned down a request for an escort while flying fighters (unless I was firmly scheduled for a different mission), but you'd be surprised how rare it is to be asked by bomber pilots!

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

 

cause buffs of 228 ShAD always have their own escort when needed
also, 72AG makes parties with escort too.

 

The best fix for otto problem would be to configure server so bombers can take human gunners, just as the game was originally designed. Ottos would still be needed in non-human seats, though.

This would add the human factor, and to appease the fighter pilots, multiple kills would be awarded for death of buff.

I don't know how many people would be interested in taking a ride with another pilot at the controls, but I certainly would, and I know of a few others.

Regards, Oz.

 

oryginal wb has both, automatic otto & attach gunners

manual otto cane be more deadly, u dont know how much
its question of AOE & method of attack.
attack from 6 is a best method to die

 

Why in WW2 most german pilots didnt attack buffs at day from 6 o´clock ? Cause gunners could kill him to easy but here in WB many Pilots attack from 6 and wondering why otto hit them. They have to low speed or coming from low and thats a big mistake.

Small question: Is there a difference in accuracy between otto and ack ?

 

http://81.19.238.131/demo/
I've also heard that Sturm units used to approach buffs from direct 6 clk hiding in their contrails.
Nope, gunners IRL weren't 1/10th as effective as they are in WB.

 

Fighters Vs Bombers

The Luftwaffe determined that "head on" attacks were the most successful against the heavies. The bombers could not bring their waist or turret guns into play until the fighters broke off for another pass. The head on attacks were the most effective way of breaking up the bomber "boxes" as well.

Taking out the pilots and/or controls resulted effectively in a kill and the head on attacks were the best way to do this also.

The americans tried to counter this with more guns in the nose of the bombers - B-17G with twin guns in the chin mount.

Attacking a b-17/b24 from the 6:00 allows at least four if not six guns to bear. From 3:00 - 5:00 or 7:00-9:00, there are five guns that can be brought to bear.

I believe that review of the records will show that single fighter vs single bomber results were mixed. Usually, it was multiple fighters and ack that brought the bombers down.

My bomber kills are the result of more than one fighter attacking a bomber at once, so they should be joint credits.

Just my two pfennigs,

Texican

 

Great movies.
But did you saw howlong the G2 pilot shot ?
Many many Hits but B17 still flying and here in WB 1 good burst and wing is gone or stab+ elevator lost. When you say otto is too good then we must say buffs need more armor. Dont lower otto accuracy if you dont make buffs stable against hits.

 

lol. I like your sarcasm . The Messerschmitt Werke in Regensburg (80 km from my hometown - btw, the railway station in my hometown was considered a target of opportunity in the area and was bombed once - some weeks ago, streets were again closed there because they found yet another "present" of the past while building some new installations ) were also a primary target on those Schweinfurt/Regensburg raid, and were bombed by a second attack group. There is even a painting by Robert Taylor, "Regensburg - No place to hide", showing a B-17 Formation under attack by numerous LW fighters. Kind of strange feeling when you drive through the streets of nowadays Regensburg, looking up into the same sky where one of the fierciest air battles was going on, which had a major impact on the upcoming strategie of the USAAF: Never again send in a daylight Buff raid w/o fighter escort, gunners are far from being a sufficient defense.

heartc

 

this doesnt mean that bombers killed cons at their six as much as they do in FH.

at most 3 gunners in WB

 

Once I got ~150 20mm shells flying b24 from Me410 and only then I lost tail

So it depends

 

heheh "most from ahead"?

eat thishere

 

Personally, I think otto should be put down to its lowest setting
(ac1, b+1. b++1, rt8, rgd4, b-2) would be a good otto low setting, ((I did test, with a 109g6 , single 20mm, I took a buff out 9 out of ten times average, against b17)) BUT make human gunners avil, and make bombers ((multi-engine)) ones stronger armor

Yesterday in arena, I was an il4, took 20x12mm ((from ki)) and wing blew off, 109 following me took 70x12mm and 130x7mm only engine dmg, Most multi engin bombers here take VERY little damage to down

 

(( BTW, the only time I get downed by bomber is when I use poor tactics))

Yesterday I shot down 3xju52 and 4 assists in one sortie ((gold attack on F7)) and I took NO, ZERO, NONE damage from otto ((assist were ju52, ju87, ju87, 110)), I had to RTB, but when I got back, F7 was gold, and I just rammed an ack ((i had 1% fuel, 0 ammo))

I was hurricane MK2

 

well thier is an art to killing buffs here on the FH. i most of the time kill a buff/ju52 from thier six oclock position. now i take hits also, but you must not stay in a straight path to the buff. otherwise otto will certainly kill you. you must move some and become a hard target. now this doesn't mean you won't get hit or killed. but makes it less likely. ask any buff pilot how they feel about having me near thier six . but i must say also having a good strategy and tactics are the best way to kill a con/buff. most of the time i am low and climbing to them so diving is out of the question. you must play a patient game then, and slowly try to get within guns range. and hopefully thier wont be an escort. because with an escort climbing and getting at the buff is impossible. unless you can set a trap and lure escorts away from the big ugly fat f---ers. and another group of fighters can then engage the buff but what astonishes me is i see buffs turning and diving to let otto fire upon a fighter . i find this extremly impossible for in real liife the gforces would not allow the gunner to fixate his guns on you/fighter. just imagine yourself standing up on a rollercoaster, with a super soaker trying to hit a target that is manuevering around you. get the picture?

 

I get usually downed in FH if i use proper tactics. If i spray from long 6 its most safe here.

If i do high speed slash attacks (which no human gunner could hit, not atleast in AH) otto kills me with long burst of hits at about d2.