You all seem to forget that The Most Succesful WW2 Fighter was a U.S. design. I'll just leave you to figure out what that plane might be
True, BUT... That AC had exellent pilots to hadle her. Before she made her reputation the previous owners had already transfered her to a trainer due to too poor war capabilities. hemuli
Oh dear Babek, IMO, there is NO substitute for Cubic Inches. That is if and when you wish to have a pleasant motoring trip over a distance, say over a few Average_Pee_Intervals_of_a_Standard_Reindeer_While_Pulling_a_Sledge. Thank God the Finnish Lapp people did not win the war
Okay then, could I have a list of German plane that are by nature more effective than their US counterparts, including the reasons why and in which way you think they're more effective? IMO the only really decisive advantage golds have are those darn 30mm cannons. Other than that I wouldn't say that any one German design is technically superior to US/British planes (or vice versa). My personal opinion is that these planes are close enough together in terms of performance that it all comes down to the pilot. Granted, golds happen to have more experts than red but that can hardly be attributed to the performance of the German planes.
No pal, they lost because they were outfought, plain and simple. Numerical superiority may have helped with that but it certainly wasn't the only or even the primary reason of the defeat of the Axis. German uberness is nothing but a myth created by German ex-generals, colonels, etc in a huff who couldn't get over the fact that they lost the war. Unfortunately much of world seems to buy into that crap.
LOL - redant Maybe the german officers told these stories but on the other hand you shouldnt believe all the fantasy stories of the allied propaganda. Germany and Japan had brilliant generals who won battles against huge odds. Finally they lost when the allies found their good generals - but there is no doubt that great leaders like Yamashita (who conquered with his small attack forces Singapur against a huge allied army) or Rommel or Manstein or Guderian were outstanding. And there could also be no doubt that german military technology was superb. You only have to compare this crap Sherman tank with the Tiger or Panther. Its not surprising that Wittmann destroyed with his single Tiger in one battle 12 Shermans. But finally there were too many of them - and also the Soviets had built brilliant tanks and had leaders like Shukov. So it was indeed the quantity and not the quality which brought the victory to the allied forces.
Partially right, US pilots loved f2a-1 but had not too much change to fly it in combat. f2a-3 "Buffalo" was hated and performed poorly. But actually thats different plane.
I would really put this more on Wittmann himself than 2 year old tank design (PzKpfw VIe "Tiger"). He had even some fireflys against him at Villers Bogage. He's great initiative to attack british battalion alone during their tea break crushed british advance totally. He just smashed his lone Tiger through the bushes to the road where brits were enjoying nice cup of tea and shot and machinegunned everything to pieces while driving at full speed along the road. Perfect timing, perfect suprise and chaos are far more decicive than any technolgy or even more numbers.
I have a different report of Wittmans assault. My sources report that Wittmann surprised a column of enemy Shermans and attacked them at once. The Shermans also opened fire on the advancing Tiger but were not able to penetrate the front armor while the Tiger was destroying all 12 Shermans one after the other.
Wrong - Wittmann was not killed by an enemy tank but by a Typhoon Here the story after newest resources: (...) Until 1983, the destruction of Wittman's Tiger was an mystery even for crews of sSSPzAbt 101. Many sources say that it was destroyed by the "Firefly Ambush", but different units claimed to ambush and destroy Wittmann's Tiger, including those of the either 1st Polish Armoured Division, 4th Canadian Armoured Division (Canadian Shermans supposedly surrounded and shot Wittmann's Tiger to pieces) or 33rd British Independent Armored Brigade. In the memoirs of a former member Mr.F.R of sSSPzAbt 101, official version at the time stated that Wittmann's Tiger was destroyed by an airplane bomb. Both presented a picture of Wittmann's Tiger without its turret with the gun barrel placed on the hull which in fact is the picture of SS-Untersturmführer Alfred Günther's Tiger destroyed by an airplane bomb at Evrecy. Along with those two versions, some claims were made that units which were not even present in the area at the time, were responsible for destroying Wittmann's Tiger. Both versions were proven wrong in 1945, by Mr.Serge Varin who found Tiger #007. Mr.Varin was interested in this tank because its turret was teared away from the hull. Mr.Varin examined Wittmann's Tiger and noticed that it was not penetrated by any shells fired at it during the fighting. The only damage to the hull was a big hole in the rear, near the engine deck. further examination Mr.Varin concluded that the impact came from the air. The rocket hit Tiger's rear deck (made of 25mm thick armor), penetrated the air intakes and exploded causing the explosion in the engine compartment and fighting compartment which ignited the stored ammunition. The second explosion instantly killed the entire crew and blew off the turret into the air. Wittmann's Tiger was destroyed by a rocket fired from a Royal Air Force Hawker "Typhoon" MkIB - attack aircraft. Typhoons were armed with HE (High-explosive) rockets and took heavy tow of German tanks during the Normandy battles (for example on August 8th of 1944, Typhoons destroyed 135 German tanks and among those Tiger #007). Michael Wittmann and his crew was killed in action on August 8th of 1944, at Gaumesnil near Cintheaux. In March of 1983, the unmarked field grave of Tiger #007's crew was discovered during the construction of the road and was excavated. It was possible to identify the remains by Wittmann's dental records and Heinrich Reimers's (driver) identification tag. Wittmann and his crew was then officially buried in the German Military Cemetery of "De La Cambe" in Normandy, France. That event had fully proven the exact location of Wittmann's Tiger and its fate as previosly suggested by Mr.Varin. ------------------------
As for this outnumbering stuff: RAF in BoB was outnumbered but managed to prevent German invasion, Polish fighters in 39' were severly outnumbered and outequipped yet they still managed to fight with very good kill/loss ratio, Finns were outnumbered but still kicked Soviet butt badly . It's not about numbers. It's about tactics and pilots' training. In 1944 and 45 Luftwaffe still had many aircraft but there was only a bunch of experienced pilots left in it. They lost because of that and because of the right tactics used by fighters escorting bombers (which enabled shooting down even jets - they weren't only killed on take off/landing!). German fighters better than allied fighters in FH? Hmm They are mostly better because golds outnumber reds all the time In 1 on 1 it takes expert in 109 or in 190 to make use of it's advantages. I met maybe 3 pilots on FH who can *fight* effectively in 190, the rest just runs. The 109 is a tricky beast too and you have to be very cautious fighting it as 1 mistake will usually make you run for your mama. German planes are good but they require experienced pilots while red planes (Spit IX, La5fn) can be flown succesfully by almost everyone. So it was in RL.
Neg it wasn't a typhoon (and neither was it a Polish Firefly to be honest ). It was a british Sherman Firefly for sure. I can look for the exact date and time, name of unit and name of the commander of the tank who killed Wittman if you want.
Ive seen pictures taken from wreck when it was found. Wittmanns Tiger was numbered 007. Turret was thrown several meters off to the left side of tank . Impact of rocket came to rear deck when turret was rotated to to right facing orchard (where fireflys were in) Fireflys knocked out several other tigers. However Wittmanns tiger had no penetrarion marks and also german report talks about air attack.
I also believe that Wittmanns Tiger was destroyed by an air attack. The 1983 research proves that it was a air-to-ground-missile of a Typhoon which hit the enginepart and caused an explosion followed by a second one which destroyed the panzer and its entire crew.
You might have mixed it up with report of Ernst Barkmann who destroyed 12 Shermans in ambush with his Panther. Here goes Wittmanns action at Viller Bogage. In June 13th 1944 Obersturmführer Wittmann was doing recon to Villers Bogage and arrived it from east. (He was doing recon for remnants of his S.Panzerabteilung) He stumbled to some german infantry and jumped out of his Tiger to complete recon on foot. When they approached curve of road (which after curve went in straight line to Villers Bogage from east) They instpected many small fires (brits were boiling tea along the road.) There were many Cromwells, 2 Sherman OPs and 3 Stuarts parked along the road with many halftracks. Wittmann returned to his Tiger and decided that attack had to be done now and alone. (He had 3 Tigers and PzKpfw IVh led by panzer ace Mobius on their way to area) He drove his tiger to the road and continued along it shooting lorries, halftracks, infantry, shermans, stuarts cromwells in pieces. British spearhead went in total chaos by this unexpected attack. Only 1 Cromwell escaped by driving through building in Villers Bogage to garden. In willage itself he met up with 1 Troop of squadron B and took out 2 of their tanks. Then Wittmann was low on ammo and decided to fall back from village to replenish his ammo and order full attack with more of his Tigers. On his way he stubled to cromwell which had escaped to garden and took it out. Wittman returned to his unit and changed his tank to one with full ammunition. And returned to village with Mobius and his platoon. Meanwhile 23rd Hussars had come to village with their fireflies, cromwells and 2x6 pounders. They set ambush to square at center of village. When Tigers arrived fireflys opened fire at 300m and knocked out track of 1 Tiger, however Tiger replied to fire and hit commander of 1 firefly directly to his head. (uhh..imagine 88mm round hitting someones head). In few more minutes in village 3 of Tigers were knocked out. PzKpfw IVh and Wittmanns tiger were hit by PIAT from some building and Wittmann (and his crew) abandoned their tiger and withdrew by foot. After this action Wittmann had knocked out total of 134tanks, 138guns and countless halftracks and trucks.
