In RL it was quite the opposite. BUT, a computer game is a TOTALLY different issue. It always is a compromise of different things, biggest being gameplay. There will propably never be a "SIM" that would not be biased towards the "winners". IMHO in a real war there are NO winners... <S> to ALL WWII vet´s, hemuli
Read these Pierre Clostermanns books: 1. The Big Show (1951): fighter pilot during WW II 2. Flames in the sky (1952): war stories of assorted pilots 3. Une Sacrée Guerre, Flammarion 1990 (sry I don´t know the english versions name) hemuli
SS-Hauptsturmfuhrers getting shot to pieces is always a good thing IMO. A high ranking officer in the SS is definitely not someone whose death I'm going to be sorry about.
Thats your opinion - but I am glad that I dont have to share it. The fact that a soldier was member of the Waffen-SS does not make him automaticly a war criminal or a monster. He was a young man who fought for his country and died in a stupid and senseless war - like those who were killed by his attacks and like the pilot who killed him. So I am indeed sorry that he (and all the others) had to die.
Unfortunately (unlike most of greatest Luftwaffe pilots) Michael Wittman was a dedicated nazi. He was even laughed at by his students in tankers' school because he tried to act like an old Prussian officer and it looked a bit weird (like when once he tripped and fell down when he tried to knock one heel against the other) . And yes I think it's funny, war was full of absurdal situations, some of them were really funny.
what is this about?! this subject should be handled a bit more careful! wittmann was a member of 'leibstandarte ss adolf hitler' from a very early point. it should be out of discussion about the meaning of the 'leibstandarte ssah', and there is no reason to glorify any activity of any member of 'ss'! you should consider twice, before comparing a 'leibstandarte'-member with other soldiers involved in that war! addendum: for me there should be no reason for mankind to kill themselves, but the 'schutz-staffel' is even out of that question!
Re: what is this about?! I did. And I come to the conclusion that in EVERY army and in EVERY war in our history there were inhuman war-crimals who liked it to torture other humans. And there were also those who were able to be humans although they lived in a time of madnes (and nothing else is a war in my opinion). Its not possible to condemn or glorify groups collectivly. Thats a crucial mistake humans always did and still do today.
conclusion? i don't think this conclusion regarding 'leibstandarte ss' is worth being published or being discussed. not for me...
hi babek, i am not sure, if i wanted to answer. this is a gamer-forum and discussion about political aspects of the dark era of wwII are not well placed here. imo, it is not suitable for the game-reputation as a war-flight-simulation and it may be difficult for admins to handle. i want to say sorry, if it is so and this will be my last post about it! i won't ever mind discussion about historical and technical facts of wwII, besides talking about the game. some of the political discussion here go a little far, but i can't see extreme opinions. i myself try never to judge over someone too fast or only of something he said once. i try to reflect all my experiences for many views, a malor part of enjoying life for me. for xerxes 'conclusion' (see your quote): it sounds banal to me, because there is nothing new for me (in that quote) but he came to that conclusion in context of wittmann, xerxes said: "The fact that a soldier was member of the Waffen-SS does not make him automaticly a war criminal or a monster. He was a young man who fought for his country and died in a stupid and senseless war - like those who were killed by his attacks and like the pilot who killed him... Its not possible to condemn or glorify groups collectivly" the 'waffen-ss' is not a group that anyone has been in by chance! the 'waffen-ss' is not a group that anyone has been in by chance! wittmann has made his choice, and he made in an early state, to be a member and supporter of the fascist ideologies of hitler. the 'waffen-ss' had major influence to the rise of nsdap. for me there is no doubt which kind of character wittmann has been or which reason he saw in the war! about moral values like 'good' or 'bad', 'winner' or 'looser', 'hero' or 'dweeb' in 'conventional' war-affairs: there is no meaning in them for me. the most positive word i can find is 'no choice'... most soldiers had no real choice - it happened. no choice maybe, if they have to defend an attacker. and for attackers, many lied to themselves to have reasons for what they did, or to stand the pain of fear to say no to war! but 'waffen-ss' is far beyond that question for me and whatever a member of 'leibstandarte' did, even in 'conventional' actions, should never be compared with anything a pilot or soldier did. why? because 'waffen-ss' knew exactly, what and whatfor they kill. hardly anybody disrespected humanity more in the name of fascism! some more: i don't laugh about any human being killed, i never will. i would feel like being the actor... i hope, i also never will wish death to anybody... but i can easily imagine, that i wouldn't have felt sorry about the death of some historical persons! again sorry for this explanation of my view, how i would discuss some historical personalities. i really would like the description of historical or global events to be reduced to opinions and facts and let the moral values out here. sorry...
Hi ledada. Initially this topic started with the comparison of technology and now it reached a point where misunderstandings are happening - especially if you consider that English is not my or xerxes native language and so misinterpretations are likely. I know xerxes for years and the last thing he would do is that he worship Nazis or share their mad ideology. In contrary: I know how he spoke some months ago about the Stuka-ace Rudel, who was still a convinced Nazi after the war. xerxes was angry about the fact that this man wasnt put into jail and allowed to act so freely after the war. I think that we all can agree in this: If someone is an inhuman racist and war-criminal he has to be condemned and punished. And its not important if he wears a german or an american or whatever uniform.
