A question for Russians/Ukrainians

Ever heard of efficient heat insulation?
What's your heating bill (in kWh per heating season)?
Mine was 4600 kWh last winter (detached house, 150 square metres).

 

Ever heard of heat pumps being used in Scandinavia? Including air ones.

 

I don't get -20C.
In my area air-water pumps are more than enough.
Now you can shove the source of that sound into your ass.

 

Since you are a chronic rural moron, I explain how to a moron: 1. The compressor motor eats electricity. 2. The earth with pipes degrades during intensive pumping of the refrigerant 3. There is no heat pump that will warm above 10 degrees Celsius. from +10 to +18 it is necessary to warm up using gas, coal, firewood and finally electricity. You would know all this if physics were taught in your village school.

 

No kidding.
Ever saw a heat pump working?

You seem to be arguing about anything: there's no war in Ukraine, heat pumps don't work, russia is the best, russians are gods.
What are your thoughts on Sun's and Earth's movement?

 

The heat pump certainly works. But if you read physics textbooks, you would know that a heat pump does not recoup costs, because the cost of pipes is higher than the cost of firewood, gas or coal for the entire time of pipes operation. But rural morons don't think about it.

 

Heat pump installation costs in physics books? Wow! You're a very pompous idiot.

 

I guess you put "physics books" in to "firewood" category. Sad.

 

Yes, rural idiots, in the Soviet university they taught not only physics, but also economic calculations and copromat, and they also taught about the aging of materials. But you rural raguli are so stupid that you haven't even heard about it, so scammers easily earn money from you.

 

ты хотел сказать "сопромат"?

по тепловым насосам: из воздуха -10С в теории можно, затрачивая 1кВт, выкачать 5кВт. но стоимость такой тепловой машины - несколько тыщ евриков/долларов - нормальный кондиционер с реверсом. к примеру, 2500. А с установкой - все 4000-5000.
но на деле коэффициент переноса вместо 5 обычно бывает меньше, например 4.

при стоимости электроэнергии в 10 центов, как было до 2020, и потреблении (как высказалась жаба) в 4600 кВт.ч за всю зиму - он, видимо, как раз использовал такой тепловой насос - он перекачал порядка 16000..18000 кВт.ч тепла из воздуха, затратив 500 евро за всю зиму.
разница с как если бы электричеством топить - в те 3-4 раза, т.е. 1200..1500 у него "экономия". Посему окупается холодильная машина года за 3. ну и ещё года три проработает и на выброс - новую покупай.

У нас в Томске газ стоит 5.70 руб/м3, электричество 3.40 руб/кВт.ч
1 м3 газа даёт около около 8000 ккал, что составляет приблизительно 9 кВт.ч.
В условиях "допандемийной" европы 30-40 центов/м3 соответствовало электрическому эквиваленту в 3-4 кВт.ч, т.е. газом, даже при европейских ценах тогда было дешевше отапливаться "напрямую".
А вот с учётом теплового "отсоса" уже получалось совсем наравне - т.к. эффективность по теплу у теплового насоса в 3-4 раза выше от затраченной электроэнергии.

Сейчас же у них 1м3 будет стоить 3-4 евриков. А элктричество... ну, фьючерсы под 1 евро/кВт.ч доходят. тот же эквивалент 3-4 кВт.ч электроэнергии.

 

Ну "копромат" они может и изучали.

 

How's the "Russian University Version" for "you're fucked at Izium, it seems that you've just lost a lieutenant general there (first POW of that rank since WWII), and it further seems that you will loose at least 2 brigades if you don't get tha fuck out ASAP"?

 

OK. Keep copromating then.

LOL at the "soviet university" benchmarking.

 

@--am--

A question: Is this heat a real heat?
many people are saying it is a fake heat, an illusion.
Please tell the truth.

 

I understand you. raguli strongly dislike when they are deceived. And so they will deny their mistake until they die. Winter is near, and the heat pump compressor only works as long as you have electricity. But it will cost 10-50 times more. And then there are the installation costs, which no one will return.

 

This is valid in my world too.

 

Hi Mac!

 

Europe got hit by roughly $1 trillion from surging energy costs in the fallout of Russia’s war in Ukraine, and the deepest crisis in decades is only getting started.

After this winter, the region will have to refill gas reserves with little to no deliveries from Russia, intensifying competition for tankers of the fuel. Even with more facilities to import liquefied natural gas coming online, the market is expected to remain tight until 2026, when additional production capacity from the US to Qatar becomes available. That means no respite from high prices.

While governments were able to help companies and consumers absorb much of the blow with more than $700 billion in aid, according to the Brussels-based think tank Bruegel, a state of emergency could last for years. With interest rates rising and economies likely already in recession, the support that cushioned the blow for millions of households and businesses is looking increasingly unaffordable.

“Once you add everything up — bailouts, subsidies — it is a ridiculously large amount of money,” said Martin Devenish, a director at consultancy S-RM. “It’s going to be a lot harder for governments to manage this crisis next year.”

Spiralling Costs
Europe’s massive tab for securing energy supplies and cushioning consumers from price spikes soared past €700 billion by end-November

The roughly $1 trillion, calculated by Bloomberg from market data, is a broad tally of more expensive energy for consumers and companies — some but not all of which was offset with aid packages. Bruegel has a similar estimate looking at demand and an increase in prices, which was published in a report this month by the International Monetary Fund.

A rush to fill storage last summer, despite near-record prices, has eased the supply squeeze for now, but freezing weather is giving Europe’s energy system its first real test this winter. Last week, Germany’s network regulator warned that not enough gas is being saved and two of five indicators, including consumption levels, have become critical.

With supply tight, businesses and consumers have been asked to reduce usage. The EU managed to curb gas demand by 50 billion cubic meters this year, but the region still faces a potential gap of 27 billion cubic meters in 2023, according to the International Energy Agency. That assumes Russian supplies drop to zero and Chinese LNG imports return to 2021 levels.

Click here for Bloomberg’s blog on Europe’s energy crunch

“Getting gas is an absolute necessity and we will likely see widespread European hoarding,” said Bjarne Schieldrop, chief commodities analyst at Swedish bank SEB AB, predicting a “seller’s market” for at least the next 12 months . “The race is on to fill EU natural gas inventories” before next winter.

Demand Erosion
Europe's gas savings accelerated in the second half of this year, with weather-corrected demand 19% below average in November

Source: Morgan Stanley



The main source of pipeline gas from Russia to Western Europe was Nord Stream, which was damaged in an act of sabotage in September. The region is still receiving a small amount of Russian supplies through Ukraine, but heavy shelling of energy infrastructure by the Kremlin puts the route at risk. Without this gas line, refilling storage will be challenging.


To head off a shortage, the European Commission has set minimum targets for inventories. By Feb. 1, reservoirs should be at least 45% full to avoid depletion by the end of the heating season. If the winter is mild, the goal is to leave storage levels at 55% by then.

LNG imports into Europe are at record levels and new floating terminals are opening in Germany to receive the fuel. Government-backed buying has helped Europe attract cargoes away from China, but colder weather in Asia and a potentially strong economic recovery after Beijing eased Covid restrictions could make that more difficult.




Chinese gas imports are likely to be 7% higher in 2023 than this year, according to China National Offshore Oil Corp.’s Energy Economics Institute. The state-owned company has started securing LNG supplies for next year, putting it in direct competition with Europe for spare shipments. China’s historic drop in demand this year was equivalent to about 5% of global supply.

China isn’t Europe’s only problem. Other Asian countries are moving to procure more gas. Japan, the world’s top LNG importer this year, is even considering setting up a strategic reserve, with the government also looking to subsidize purchases.

European gas futures have averaged about €135 a megawatt-hour this year after peaking at €345 in July. If prices go back up to €210, import costs could reach 5% of GDP, according to Jamie Rush, chief European economist at Bloomberg Economics. That could tip the shallow recession being forecast into a deep downturn, and governments will likely have to scale back programs in response.

Surging Bills
German households risk paying twice as much for energy this year

Source: Sanford C. Bernstein

*Estimate based on proposals from Germany's Gas Commission

Isabella Weber, an economist at the University of Massachusetts Amherst, who’s known as the inventor of Germany’s gas price break.

The challenge is finding the balance between keeping factories running and homes heated in the near term while not choking off the incentives to invest in renewable power — widely seen as the most sustainable way out of the energy squeeze.

“The biggest task out of the crisis is to make the energy transition happen,” said Veronika Grimm, an economic adviser to the German government. “We have to massively expand renewables.”

 

Exactly.
Now suck it.