BoB 1st frame - first impressions

Well have to say i was exciting overall

First i would like thx all who help with scenario preparation. Its huge work and wihout coop its not possible realize.

Namely thx for all admins and COs - Maleti, Exec, Hardy for responsibility with what they took their job. Bah--- for a lot of spent fours in test flights which results were usable for create mission design and for tactical briefings of boths sides.

Also big thx for all leaders and pilots who had patience and organized their pilots in test events and this 1st frame.

So here are some first impressions:

1. TS issues bit delayed begin of frame - but for first time it was succes whan 90% pilots have successfuly used TS. For next time we will try fix problem with switching channels, than TS use will be fine.

2, As i have some comments by other admins - for next time will be necessary improve pilots briefing. No matter we published documents before, was in evidence that some pilots dint spent attention to and made chaos during frame. So as we arranged with Maletin - briefing will be still as apart of registration and each pilot will must pass it if he will want join.

3. Due to repeated frame start, the still airborned RAF Wings were returned back to the bases for new take off. In relation by the info by the admins that LW has problems with take off and organizing, RAF wings were holded otg. But during this time the LW still was formed and hdg to England. Second scramble was late and fighters hadnt enough time for take enough altitude in declared sectors. Altitude disadvantage was major factor in frame run. So I should risk fuel lack and keep Wings on air without relation to the actual LW position - that was my wrong choice.

3. After first clash groups splitted to individual fights and finding enemy. As i see on some first tracks, guys had troubles with identifing enemies and orientation. The primary target were the bombers - but as i saw many pilots has followed 109s to high altitudes when JU87 were nearby.
But as always in first time all is difficult - with this experience leaders with their pilots will can improve their tactics.

4. By first results the Tangmere Wing got several kills and has protected one by three targets on Ventnor.
Bigger Biggin Hill Wing wasnt unable to protect factory where all declared buildings were destroyed and except three also all AA.
No matter to alt disadvantage, some pilots achieved victories - some of them more times.

5. Im happy that Ho-Hun afraids about LW "blood bath" due to less fighters has showed as unjustified. As i supposed in the mission design - LW had on their side moment of surprise, altitude advantage and better armanent. Together with well worked exec tactic plan LW has turned profit. RAF defenders without altitude advantage always were step back.
Im satisfied the scenario frame when he had relation to the real BoB Phase 1 results when LW achieved successes: "Luftwaffe suspected the importance of the British radar masts and attacked the stations on the South coast, damaging some of them very badly. In this stage of the battle, the Luftwaffe was in effect probing the British defences"...

5. The 7mm gunnery is still poor - this has showed especially in attacks to the 110. We will try tune more this issue.

6. one red was spotted as he has broke tactic limit on the bottom border line - 4.3.7.4-5.3.7.4. One gold was spotted on air after frame over. We will analyze and draw conclusions. By the tracks looks some 109s broke the 15000ft top alt limit, but i cannot confirm it 100%, so no punishment. For next time i would like request all pilots for keeping limits. Breaking limits spoil our gameplay.

7. You can upload your tracks on the http://fhscenarios.jinak.cz - download section - tracks. Before you will upload, pls cut from original track important part and from this save newone. Upload to website than. Size limit is 200kb.
For checking bomb hit/destroy we need parts of tracks where are server message about visible in the caht line.

We are waiting for arena logs by breeedr, official results will be published on the http://fhscenarios.jinak.cz.

Again big thx for all people - it was exciting experience and fun. Im looking fwd for the 2nd frame asap

<S>

 

I must say my impressions are quite diffrent, i am quite disaapointed with the first frame.
The time invested in those 30 minutes of flight was too big. Weeks of preparations tests and training shouldnt result in a 1,5 hour delay.
This must be fixed next time.

Not quite true, on the time BH wing arrived on the scene lack of altitude was not the problem. The problem was, there was nothing to fight with! Only small groups of max 3 enemies were encoutered, nothing worth atacking by the whole squad. Understanding that the LW and stukas are going home, i gave my pilots freehand.
The LW "takeoff problems" were a major drawback in scenario design. Imho he whole scenario rules should be rearrenged. Also assigning weaker Tangmare Wing as a patrol unit, while the large Bigin Hill wing was as scramble unit was wrong option. As a result a large force of about 30 pilots gone wasted while Tangmare was broken.
I have some ideas id like to share with you rbull. They may solve Luftwaffes problems with taking off and make the scenario more interesting.
You must know that its better to make pilots circle in air with clear skies and rtb without a fight, than to make them sit on the ground while the enemy is incoming.

 

My thoughts:

I had some personal problems today so didnt see the instructions til late on. I had a brief look, but it wasnt enough. Myself and cbfs had a specific task which, although ended seemed to end up successful and both of us rtb'd safe, communications ended a little frayed.

This can be easily fixed. If we are to deploy a similiar role next frame we can get some details finely tuned.

Another thing I had some difficulty with was the orders in the email. I think it would be a good idea if the COs pass the orders to a native English speaker to translate exactly what the orders request. I would be willing to do this for the Axis side.

I'd like to add tho, I have the utmost respect and admiration for everyone involved in making this scenario for their ability to make themselves clearly understood in English at least 90% of the time, even though it isnt their first language. Kudos to you all

With some preparation, we can easily make that 100%.

Oh, something else:

Akin to the point above about speaking English. Could everyone who can speak English, or at least make themselves understood in English, try using it as much as possible.

Also, there has to be a great reduction in the amount of chatter on public channels.

Finally, we all enjoy taking part in these scenarios. Alot of hard work goes in to making them happen. But they dont just happen, whether you are an organiser or participant. They take alot of work on both sides, and not to mention some discipline.

If everyone makes the effort to make things work, then there's no reason we cant have the last 3 frames as good as the first.

WTG all, thanks for the fun

 

@ vought: Sorry, obviously I wasnt aware of the difficulties you guys were having. Better communication should solve most or all of the problems.

I dont want to open a can of worms so to speak, but just a suggestion. We should perhaps think about using today's frame as a real test for the scenario, then run each frame a week behind that which it was scheduled for.

This might not be a satisfactory solution for the majority, neither is it rarely even an acceptable solution.....but with the evident problems caused by the server settings, perhaps it would be appropriate so some dont lose interest.

 

Supposition is that you must know that enemy is coming. As and admin i know that LW just starting on their fields form info by other admins. But this info i may not use as CO. For CO is only one source of info about possible enemy activity - adn its radar awareness. If in the design there is no rule by this RAF knows that LW will come and on this supposition RAF can go to the CAP BEFORE any rdr awareness. That was typical for 2nd BoB phase, not for the first.

So first time when RAF CO know about any enemy activity is when they are spotted on the radar. And be sure than in this time i sent you up.

So srry vought, but your conclusions are wrong. If you and your guys had to "sit on the ground", that wasnt due anyone bad will.

OTOH im free for any ideas or purposes, especially practical help

 

VV that Glas!



In the instructions, it was said we had to find and report 'large barrages' (it was not patrol barrages exec, I checked). Now, I know an artillery barrage or even a balloon barage, but it didn't cross my mind that what was meant was 'enemy fighters'.

It was cleared by exec as soon as we got to the objective, so it didn't influence the operation in a bad way. Was funny flying above the target (just us) and thinking 'ooook, what do we do now?!'

Anyway! At least we managed to stay in front of the 110s at D40, but turning around again cost us lots of fuel (went ahead too fast). Thus, when we faced a large group of Hurricanes, we simply flew straight through them and RTBed. JUST made it back (fuel), I am happy we were both alive and carried out our mission properly.

Both me and Glas would have liked a fight though...



(At some point, turning around for the 110s, we went above the 4.5k mark, but we went lower as soon as we realised it - didn't affect anyone)

 

Yeah, everything that cbfs reported also

Especially about wanting a fight By the time we found one, we were too short on fuel to do anything about it hehe.

 

And my though: how the fu** 610th scattered so fast? Wtf about keeping with your leader?

Waiting was really too long but I strongly belive next time will be no delay due to TS issues and LW organisation.

 

I'm just pissed off! When 610. rolled , we've went SW to meeting poin / grab alt . When we had 15k kft we went S to look for cons. All time hanging around our leader. Then we spotted some lonely ju87's but we didn't engaged them (that wasn't our task). The next thing i remember is we were ordered to go N becuose the enemy is braking through , and then it all fucked up with our squad. Sirfux got lost (i think) , the rest of squad dissappeared form my view , i've only could se my wingmen who was next to me (but still going wrong direction - E) i took a look back at the spot where i saw sirfux last time, but he wasn't there. So i told my wingman to go N , but i guess he was afk or something coz he didn't respond or do anything. Then i looked at my right to see what's he doing , and than got pk'd by bladeo. I was damn pissed off , i waited 1 hour just to get lost and eventually die quite fast (~5 min).
I think in 610. squadron communication was the biggest problem.

 

can we pls reply this first frame of BoB? txs and regards mosche

 

tig, 610sq:
sry sinfux, this was my first lead, i no used radio enouth, u was lost when i was bz on a 6 ju otw factory
true, the squad exploded just after 1rst engagement, but what is the aim of scenario?
killing ju before they drop i guess, so i jumped on those i cross.
for info: every sortie by closterman in BOB, every fighter rtb almost alone.

 

no...I think Spitfires were supposed to be engaged (hard to engage far higher enemy) by 109s to prevent 109s huting Hurricanes.

 

97sq(hurri) part of Biggin Hill wing (f5) up on scramble order
We heading in area factory possible enemy targets
when arrive we meet 5-7 me110 but too late ,110 finished atack factory
many tgts destroy
we atack but hurri no chance with 110
110 too fast ,too hard for hurricane 1
97sq achieve many hits in 110 but only 1 down
rest 110 escape
we no vv ju87 in factory area(any ju87 hit building in factory?)
sry my english

Arttii

 

many of sqn79 hurri pilots have such message while hitting 110s:
HOST:You not present in victim's DB

 

Yes, can anyone explain that issue? I had reports of this sitiation during the fight and im afraid it made 110's ivrunable to our fire. I just simply forgot to report it later after the scenario.
Maybe its becouse of the '32 pilot limit' that makes you invisible if you are the 33rd and next piot to somebody, at the same time you are unable to hur him?
This puts the whole scenario sense to a question.
Espacialy if we are to fight in such large groups like the luftwaffe created. (heard about all LW pilots grouped and entered british airspace in number exceeding 32)
Imagine what could happen if 1 formation of 32 machines encounter another 30+planes formation...

 

CC 32+ bug. We have to prevent better next time. COs briefing has to follow prevention of this bug. Just we work on it.

 

in that case i demand confirmation of 1 kill

 

My first impression, not a very good frame, much chaos for LW in the begining which put us on the back foot for the rest of the frame. But I think this had much to do with LW pilots unaware of the brief, than a fault in planning. I would like to re-run the frame again next week, if this is agreed. I feel disappointed that we did not repay the hard work of admins and planners...but it can only get better

Maybe the final briefing could be issued a little earlier? Maybe CO's should meet in scenario arena earlier to finalise their understanding, radios etc so they can take a more active role in "scooping" pilots into their places as they arrive.

Despite the "challenging" start, I got a piece of barney and sent volume (I guess he landed) running with fuel + oil leak over Ventnor, and I managed to make it back...sailing the last few miles to a hvy landing.

I still had fun, thanks for the hard work admins, planners + testers.

 

As also others pilots asking about - we have been planning 2nd frame. Just need arrange with other admins about. Maybe Sat 30 would be useful, but we have to discuss first. You will be informed asap.

btw guys you cant imagine how much work is necessary for preparation of frame. There are a lot of inputs what has to be solved. And also many of experiences with possible issues comes first time. Now we know-how more.
We would like you could keep in mind that from your side the participation on scenario shouldnt be only sit-and-fly and take fun. You need also more to do - especially in communication and understanding of briefing (to what unit im assigned, whats my role, commandig structure, etc.)
Without responsible and helpful pilots we will not be able make any.

 

im sorry but i cant understand that..
after frame start allies shouldnt be interested if luftwaffe have problems organizing!
because if they do - thats their problem

putting tangmere wing in situation when luftwaffe fighters have 2x more alt inspite they couldnt organize on their take off.. and tangmere was ready on both alarms.. well.. nc;

i was sitting in twr and watching luftwaffe forces incoming, we rolled when they were 10-7miles from targets;
they failed organization, and RAF paid for this;



my opinion is: when both COs agree for frame can start - then let it happen;

anyway im bit frustrated not only because bein shot down on lag after waiting 1.5hour for take off (but thats ok, it seems lag was on my side) but also because RAF was better organized and didnt deserve to face such situation like it had;
nevermind if frame gonna be repeated or not - i cant wait second frame;