Choosing a new stick

Discussion in 'Warbirds International' started by Glas, Jun 22, 2004.

  1. Glas

    Glas Well-Known Member

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    I need a new stick to fly again. Ive been looking around and found a Logitech Extreme 3D Pro at a decent price (about the same as a Saitek Cyborg).

    There is a review of the stick here which sounds not bad.

    Anyone have any experience of this stick? I think I have heard some people say before that Logitech is crap, but im limited to what I can buy and Ive went through 3 Saiteks in 2 years, so I want something different.

    Yay, or nay? :)

    -glas-
     
  2. beryl

    beryl Well-Known Member

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    just a week, maybe 2 and i'll get best stick - old rax's cyborg gold - auto-killing joy :D
     
  3. tigrou

    tigrou Well-Known Member

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    my first joy was a logitecwingman, not very good but cheap and WB cd in the package. :)
    now saitek twist(good to fly, hard to aim with twist)
    it's time for me too to change :rolleyes:
    the logitec 3d, is it for right and left hand?
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2004
  4. Glas

    Glas Well-Known Member

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    @ beryl: It's the Cyborg Gold I have. Great stick, but it just isnt at all durable. A new stick every 8 months is a bit much imo. I hate to change cos I like it so much.

    @ tigrou: It's a right-handed stick mate, doesnt switch afaik.

    -glas-
     
  5. beryl

    beryl Well-Known Member

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    cyborg is not durable? uchm.. i thought it's one of most durable sticks :eek: Earlier i got wingman attack (just 4xfire and throttle), it was fine, but not durable, it lost precision, i was repairing it few times, but each time it was failing again after shorter time. My nest joy was mediatech MT161firestorm. 6x fire,throttle, ruuder.. fine construction, but parts are shitty, and i need to repair it day-by-day, because rudder was living it's own life :D
     
  6. tigrou

    tigrou Well-Known Member

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    what would be nice for a joy is:
    :rolleyes: a long stick for precision
    :rolleyes: the tail twist on the trottle for not soap piloting
    :rolleyes: possibility to switch quickly point of view normal to up
     
  7. Glas

    Glas Well-Known Member

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    From personal experience, and speaking to anyone who has ever owned one, there are always 2 constants:

    1. It is one of the best, if not the best stick on the market.

    2. It breaks easily. Or not so much breaks, but loses it's precision and the deadband (is that the right word?) becomes bigger and bigger. Right now, I can move left at all in my plane, either by stick (aileron) or rudder movements. If you have seen someone in the sky going in clock-wise circles recently, it was me :D

    -glas-
     
  8. Malino

    Malino Well-Known Member

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    Na Glas, it was me, my hat left has gone again so I have to circle clockwise to look down.

    Mal
     
  9. Glas

    Glas Well-Known Member

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    Oh yeah that reminds me, the hat switch goes on it too :rolleyes:

    -glas-

    p.s Hey Malino, been a while :)
     
  10. dick_steel

    dick_steel Well-Known Member

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    If you have money to spend, Saitek x45 HOTAS is a very good choice.
    Easily programmable, still (after 6 month break-in period) accurate, has a plenty of buttons+hats. Only thing that can not be used in WB are rotary switches. I is possible to band them and program some macros to each band. I even tried once, and put some common messages into them, like "check six" and stuff. But after moving to RW i dropped them off.

    So that "EAT ME BOMBS AWAY INCOMING CHECK SIX" message that some of you may have had, was me, sorry.

    Dick
     
  11. -frog-

    -frog- Well-Known Member

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    From my experience:

    Don't touch anything done by Mediatech company (although it's a Polish manufacturer and I should support it)- I already got 3 of their MT168 Tomahawk's and they're excellent and extremely precise Joysticks... which do fail after 2 months of use (it was 2 months of use in all 3 cases- no I'm not dumb enough to buy a new stick of a previously broken type, the latter 2 came as guarantee-replacement-hardware).
    Now i use Trust's QZ-501 Predator which is a nice stick with some setbacks though. The rudder-twist-handle does not work precisely enough (with tendency to lock-up in first moth of use- that dissapeared now) and the whole stick appears to be ugly and cheap (both true).
    I was able to test Microsoft's SP2 and I found it way better than all other I flew with... the problem is I cannot get it anywhere (production stopped).
    Logitech Joysticks are known to have problems with resistors (non-optical ones) or overall precission (optical ones). Choosing a non-optical Logitech is almost certainly going for an intensive course of micromechanics and use of wonder-doing Contact-PR conductor-grease.
    Saiteks are sometimes too delicate (X45 excluded).
    Choice is Yours.
     
  12. -afi--

    -afi-- Well-Known Member

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    When i used to fly, I used a MS Sidewinder (THANK YOU ETERNALLY ALW!!!!! :) ) and it is A) Durable B) Precise and C) Has a lot of buttons that are easy to program.

    That's as far as my knowledge goes on joysticks, I've only used one for my entire FH career. But in essence, that's pretty good advertisement for the Sidewinder :) I cranked on that thing!
     
  13. strafe

    strafe Guest

  14. strafe

    strafe Guest

    I've been using a Microsoft Sidewinder Precison2, its a good one I guess. If u have a chance to buy, do it. Check Ebay site u can find good offers there.
     
  15. Glas

    Glas Well-Known Member

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    I stuck with Ssaitek and got the Cyborg evo.

    It doesnt work so well in Wb for some reason, but I tried it in AH and it worked like a dream. Just taking some getting used to with the new position of buttons and throttle.

    The more I use it, the more I like it tho :)

    -glas-
     
  16. rgreat

    rgreat FH Developer

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    By my ~10 years of flight sim expirince. ;)
    -----------------------------------------

    Best Joysticks out there are in order of quality:
    1. Microsoft Sidewinder ForceFeedback 2
    Best Force Feedback implementation in all Joysticks.
    Best Mechanic & Sensors in all Joysticks.
    Very precise, and not getting worse in several years!
    Very nice ergonomic.
    Minuses:
    Not for big hands.
    ?Only? 8 buttons.
    Rare, out of production.
    Costly, you can only buy it for 200+$ now. And only IF you can find one.
    Hehe, it was priced for only 60$ shortly before production ends. ;)
    2. Microsoft Sidewinder ForceFeedback Pro
    Older model of MSSWFF2.
    Quite different inside (one optic camera), but still same quality &
    lettle worse ergonomic.
    3. Microsoft Sidewinder Precision Pro. (Old Model)
    Same as MSFFPro but without ForceFeedback.
    Nice mechanic, but worse then FF series.
    4. Microsoft Sidewinder Precision 2.
    Same as MSFF2 but without ForceFeedback.
    Much worse mechanic, but same sensors & ergonomic.
    5. Microsoft Sidewinder Joistick.
    Old low budget sibling of MSSWPPro.
    Less buttons and only 3 axis.
    All MS joysticks can easily live for more then 3 years.
    Even WITHOUT need of sensors replace.

    Then go Sitek products like:
    6. "Cyborg" series.
    Very good sensors. (Optic)
    Above average mechanic.
    Ergonomic is above average.
    Few glitches in hardware but there are workarounds present.
    Life - more then 2 years.
    ForceFeedack version is second best, after microsoft ones.
    All other FF models from other brands are just BAD.
    Only MS & Saitek make nice FF.
    Quite cheap.
    7. "Evo" series.
    Pretend to be newer version of "Cyborg",
    but have sensors of worse quality.
    Ergonomic is above average.
    Life = ?
    New model.
    I expect 12-24 months. Sensors are questionble though.
    8. X-45 and such.
    Many buttons, programming abilities and nice throttle are pluses.
    Ergonomic of trottle is good.
    Ergonomic of stick is below average.
    Sensors are average.
    All other points are from mediocre to poor.
    Life - 12-24 months.

    TrustMaster "Coguar's" are very pretty toys, but surprisingly not a good joysticks.
    Very good programing (but very complicated interface for that).
    Mechanic is below average.
    Sensors are average. Quite precise at start, but have fairly short life.
    Ergonomic is bad unless you have very large hand.
    You will need to completly replace mechanic & sensors to be able to get good quality control. (+150-200$)
    Very costly (~450$) to have tuned up model.
    12-24 months life by default. Years IF tuned up.
    Without tune up, better to have X-45.
    With tune up it can battle for 1st place.
    Battle: "ForceFeedback" vs "Alot of Buttons". ;)
    Still it have VERY large handles.

    "AfterBurner" series are cheap.
    Quality is average in all aspects.
    Simple throttle included is a plus, maybe.
    Well...for its price its a OK joystick. ~6-12 month life.
    "Fox" series are worse.

    Old "TopGun" series are not better then "Fox". 6-12 month life.

    Old "F-22" sticks are quite good quality joysticks, but very rare now.

    Logitechs have only one good joystick model: very old gameport "Wingman" serie.
    All others are bad ones with poor sensors.
    6-12 months life.

    Genius joysticks are of even crappier quality components, but have nice ergonomics. Very bad sensors. Only live for 3-6 months.
    Cheap.

    CH Products = Not know.
    Costly.
    Rumors says that these are good.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2004
  17. Snakeye

    Snakeye Well-Known Member

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    I'd recommend one of MS sticks. Precision Pro 2 or FFB2. Great, precise, durable sticks.
    PP2 is on optical pots (like mouse) so it's almost indestructable ;)

    Logitech has poor quality potentiometers, that's why it's sh*t. Thou I had Wingman Extreme (not 3D) earlier for 5 years and it's still working fine :) It needed some maintenance ever 2-3 months (pots cleaning), so I got me a MS.
     
  18. Glas

    Glas Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Rgreat, some good info there for anyone else planning on forking out for a stick :)

    I cant work out why plane rolls with the evo are so sluggish, and once you start a roll it is very difficult to stop it...the plane just keeps wallowing around on it's axis. Apart from this tho, it is great in every other way. The hat switch seems more durable than the previous Cyborg and the new screws on the top of the stick are alot easier than the old allen key system they used, if you need to replace/clean parts.

    One more gripe I have with it tho is the trigger is hyper-sensitive. Ive regularly lost 20-30% of my ammo before I even get near a fight.

    -glas-
     
  19. beryl

    beryl Well-Known Member

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    didn't knew saiteks got optic sensors,but it's much better for me :)
     
  20. ozemale6t9

    ozemale6t9 Well-Known Member

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    I have had a Logitech Wingman Extreme 3D FF for about 2.5 years now, and have had very little trouble as far as pots/electrics go. It does however have a fair bit of wear in all the pivot points. Don't know why you would build something to run plastic on plastic, except to make people replace them often.

    I have looked at replacing all the plastic internals with alloy/brass, but as yet haven't done anything about it.

    regards, Oz