confusing review - dont read!

Discussion in 'Scenario / Tournament / Squad missions' started by -nicae-, Mar 15, 2003.

  1. -nicae-

    -nicae- Well-Known Member

    Sep 6, 2000
    like bile's says: dont read this!!

    My view on
    Channel War III: Enemy coast ahead!

    Terrible, comparing to what a scenario should be like. On the other hand, flaws and mistakes have been identified on various procedures, such as takeoff/landing, walkon assigning, etc. As soon as we find a way to solve these, our scenarios will be much better. So, despite the bad result, I'm still optimistic! :)

    Walkons are those who were not registered for the event but showed up, wanting to participate. It's not so easy managing these, so the current plans were quite good. The plan was to accept walkons, as long as they showed up before the scenario's start. Also, they would not be able to choose their side/squad/role on their own. Those who show up after the scenario start won't be allowed to participate at all. :( (It's a lot of work to assign these on the fly!)

    The initial plan was good, except that it wasn't forwarded to the players (bad mistake). But anyway, it wasn't really formal yet. Now we can write down the procedures, so all admins can know how to do it properly, and all pilots know what to do, and when to do it.
    The initial plan was to suspend all fields, and clear their operations when a squad was 100% twr and ready for takeoff. One admin would carefully watch who took off to make sure all were registered, on the correct squad, and on the correct field. But as soon as I arrived in the scenario arena, the scenario was starting (my mistake, but i was stalled with RL matters) and the takeoff procedures were completly changed. The new system was to control the sides, and not the fields. So all reds and all golds took off at the same time, without any field/team/plane control.
    That was a mistake, IMHO, since it's at the start that you must register all walkons (and where they were flying, with what plane, field, etc), and mark the absences on the roster list. As you reds saw, for taking off, I requested each pilot to confirm their presence in the twr to me in private, before i would clear a field. That's because I had to check who wasn't present, if 100% of the squad was in twr, and to find out where the walkons were assigned to.
    Quite complicating, I know :-\
    Anyway.. I formulated a system that should make it easier next time.. I'll spare you from the boredom now.

    We had no control over landings whatsoever. That's why I allowed taking off from other fields. A clear system was not passed onto the players. In the future, I hope we will have enough admins to strictly control all landings, and checking each one's sorties. Unless we have access to a clear and simple (but yet complete) server log.

    argh, there's so much to say, and you won't read that much!
    Most of the changes are for admins and scenario creators. Mostly involving procedures on how to control the situation on paper and roster lists.

    So..... We'll let you know of the changes that involve you. I hope. ;)

    There is so much to be seen, still. I'm writing this right after the scenario, so don't mind the confusion, etc. My head is still melted.

    ahhhh nevermind, !!
  2. dyer

    dyer Well-Known Member

    Aug 23, 2001
    After not reading your post, I would also have a few comments to add to the ones I did not read over here...

    Please, try to fix the squad crossing over on channel 110. We had a lot of problems with that and spent over an hour to solve just that. We ended up selecting another channel for our communication and with the wrong squad number: The 192 bombers. That's kind of strange for a group of spit V... So that could be really helpful.

    Another thing, please create a forum so we can help with the organisation of the missions where each can place his opinion on what should be done to win the war. It was so in BoB, and even if the CO did not choose every idea, he still had a pool of information to choose from. Also, it can be used to post the selected plan, schedule some training, etc.

    And please, increase slightly the range of icons! Even if it's only to d10!

    Well, I guess that's it for now. I know it is one hell of a job to organise such scenario and I think you've handled it pretty well for a first. I only hope you'll take into account my few comments.

    WTG and be assured I'll be there if there is a "sequel" to this scenario!
  3. ramzey

    ramzey Well-Known Member

    Jul 12, 2001
    San Jose, CA
    Niki , my friend,
    no offence
    read your post again, try to fit my schoes /or any CO / and re-think. And after that read again what do u write.;)

  4. lucull

    lucull Well-Known Member

    Sep 20, 2001
    Well done guys for your first scenario!!! :cheers:

    That was the good part, now comes the bad :D

    Registration should be left like it is. Great work maletin. Keep it simple stupid and everyone even without knowing english but flying in FH will know what to do.

    Same wtg for keeping squads together. I didn' see much confusion at the Allied side. Yes, loosing chl 110 for communication was bad, but solved it quickly by tuning to yellow group channel and ramzey making chl 103 command channel. I think LW really strugled with all the noshowups and walkons. No problems like this for Allies.

    The rearming worked for RAF, but I was 100% sure it wouldn't for LW. Rethink rearming. Maybe you need more admins for it and/or introduce something completly different.

    Finish registration earlier. Maybe 1 week before scenario or even more. Make side forums, so that staff is able to discuss strategies.

    Make a precise schedule for the event. Something like this:

    @ T - 60 Flight prohibited. Walkons to training arena
    @ T - 30 initial briefing. Registered Pilots have to be in or loose their slot at this time. Walk on doors open
    @ T - 15 final briefing. Walk on doors closed
    @ T = 0 launch. Start logs

    That was schedule for AH scenario "Battle for Niemen" and all 4 frames started at scheduled time with 270+ players ;)
    It is a well trained team, but maybe you could learn from them.

    Icon range D6 is a bad joke. I'm sure that a "normal" pilot in WW2 was able to identify planes at greater ranges. The WB graphics are not uptodate and not very detailed. Yes, I know some can indetify planes at D60 but most can't. I'm for icon range D15 therefore.

    Don't close arena for the event, because you will always have people with disco who want to reenter the arena. Keep an eye on people who enter scenario after beginning and ask them once to leave if they are not a "disco" and then eject them.

    Get more admins to run the scenario. Better more than not enough ;)
    One for walkons, 2 for each side and one to have an eye on the setup (could be the one who managed the walkons). Send walkons to side CO and he sends them to SL.

    Introduce the use of voice comms for admins. Introduce it for command staff for both sides and maybe introduce it in general to all players. Take a look at Teamspeak. (a bit dreaming)

    The server has several bugs. The squad bug with no chl 110 usable. Planes disappearing in front of you and it was definetly a bug that caused the mass disco of B25s and Spits.

    Not a matter in this scenario, but something to keep always in mind. Make the scenario fun for both sides. Keep always an eye on playability and side balance. Most players are not realism junkies.

    Just my 2 cents. Only suggestions to think of ;)

    Great job sceanario team :super:
  5. krause

    krause Well-Known Member

    May 12, 2000
    At First : Many thanks to all get involved creating this Scenario !!!

    --- Every Scenario get his own choaos :)
    but for the first Big Scenario on Free Host, the Chaos was
    at low level !!! and i think we learn a lot for doing better

    --- missing Pilots
    A) alot receive their box with IL-2/Forgotten Battles last days,
    and due to this simply forgott Saturday Scenario on FH.
    (Well next time they will be there )

    B) Living in different Tim Zones is a Problem.
    Can we get an running clock at Scenario Page ????
    If i know Scenario starts at 20:00 Zulu Time
    Scenario clock shows 16:00
    i know scenario starts in 4 hours no matter what time
    zone i am in

    --- Scenario sign in + Briefing
    50 Minutes before Scenario, when i like to check briefing -
    which Squad assigned to - i got an email: "Lost Password -
    create new one" form scenario Page ??????????????????
    badly unable to get a new one before start of scenario

    To avoid cunfusion and limit work to a minimum, lets get
    an sign in page like + some usefull aditions

    check sign in on "Rabaul Raiders" (last Scenario for free on next saturday)

    For each Flight Group within registration
    -- marks wanna be Flightleader
    -- marks Co Flightleader
    -- marks using Voice Programm (RW / TSpeak /TSound/BC)
    -- using language xy on voice prog
    The more people on voice with same language in each Flight
    Group - means minimum on confusion

    --- Icons
    For me icons in scenario works well d6 was absolute ok
    but for maintaining Squad together/ regroup and so on
    Friendly: D15
    Enemy : D8
    was working very well in a lot of Scenarios i take Part

    2 Sorties: 4 Fighter Kills 1 Bomber Kill ;-))
    But who killed me by colliding in me ? :)
  6. --stec

    --stec Well-Known Member

    Dec 24, 2000
    Poznan, Poland
    Thx for your reviews guys, they will be be very helpful in planning next scenarios. We'll think all opinions over in scenario team and will try to make next scenario a fully professional one :)
  7. manoce

    manoce Well-Known Member

    May 9, 2002
    Rožnov pod Radhoštěm, Czech republic
    I guess that so called "icon problem" was in fact problem of pilots who were not acustomed with this feature

    of course it was shock - but no problem to get over it - only need of strong discipline in Squadron, good eyes and 10 minutes in offline practising recognizing planes

    I've really loved this feature - it pushed air fight to another dimension of realism
  8. HoHun

    HoHun FH Beta Tester

    Sep 22, 2001
    Hi Manoce,

    >I guess that so called "icon problem" was in fact problem of pilots who were not acustomed with this feature

    The "icon problem" is a real problem, as it depends on graphics card, screen resolution and gamma setting.

    On my monitor, Spitfires and Messerschmitts couldn't be told from each other at all, and the 10 Spitfires I attacked over England totally lost it and were going round in circles chasing each other because all aircraft looked alike to them, too. For the outnumbered side, D6 icons were as good as a stealth fighter in that situation.

    That much said, I previously was an advocate of D30 icons, so you'll be happy to hear that now I think icon range could be less :)

    For the next scenario, I'd suggest friendly/enemy icons D12/D12 - I firmly believe it's a bad idea to make a difference between enemy and friendly planes with regard to identification as Krause suggested, though the average icon range he quoted seems reasonable to me.


    Henning (HoHun)
  9. manoce

    manoce Well-Known Member

    May 9, 2002
    Rožnov pod Radhoštěm, Czech republic
    hm true -- logical lapsus in my thinking -
    i had problems with enemy identification as well, but after scenario I realized that i could do it - conclusion - everyone could do it -- forgotten - smbdy could have worse monitor, graphic card etc. However these 109E and F2 are really different from Spits - Emil had to be identified at D20 easily - that yellow nose could be seen on every computer - but that is only my assumption - could be not right

    Icons same for friend/enemy - agree
  10. Priest

    Priest Well-Known Member

    Mar 2, 2001
    AFAIK RAF got the squads based on current MA sq's? It must have been much easier to maintain formations etc, as the pilots already knew each other..

    In LW wings were not based to any existing squadrons, and at least on w3 I haven't flew with any of pilots before doupt if anyone other either.

    I don't see any problem with sorth icon ranges like in this scenario when fighting alone, but maintaining formation would have required at least some practice, or creater icon range.
  11. ramzey

    ramzey Well-Known Member

    Jul 12, 2001
    San Jose, CA
    afaik Lw based on on MA squads same like RAF;)
    it was CO chose to move pls between squads, i do this before scenario, and try to keeps squads together.
    Unfortunly many ppls not input his squad name

    icon range is to short now, not give bombers chance to defend
  12. -nicae-

    -nicae- Well-Known Member

    Sep 6, 2000
    friendly icons will have to go further anyway, for identification on takeoffs ;)
    enemy icons may increase as well.

    but not too much :)

    aaaaaahhhhhh! after all those discussions, ONLY NOW! aaaaahhh!!! :dark: