Crosswind Landings As Recomened By Mr Mumble

Discussion in 'Off Topic International' started by hezey, Nov 16, 2013.

  1. hezey

    hezey Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2010
    Messages:
    2,319
    Location:
    British Columbia, Canada
    I have been using the Wing-Low method recommended final approach for years. It is not difficult in flight sims that tabulated dynamics [is I use correct term? never mind], like MSFS and WB [sorry]. In my X-Plane all things are influenced, uh, changed by all other things [cross connected].
    There is another method of approaching the End Of Runway and Staying Lined Up To The Runway, called Crabbed-Approach method.
    Now that I have discovered the Crosswind Component Calculator, I am gonna fiddle with both methods, as recommended on the web.
    I am gonna spend the winter flying with a Virtual Flight Instructor [Mostly Youtube and wiki] and just go back to basics, with is, uh, one step up from Theory Of Flight.
    Without paying a hundred bucks an hour in a flight school, a idiot [me] never knows where to start.
    Now I know better where to start:
    All over again!
    [​IMG]
    At this time I am climbing over the Rocky Mountains [Actually Called Coastal Range, it becomes the Rockies somewhere along the line]. I have to get used to the X-Plane method of autopilot aids, so I can look at maps and stuff without crashing into a mountain.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2013
  2. Mcloud

    Mcloud Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2003
    Messages:
    2,438
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    Interesting stuff. I guess it's like turning your nose into the wind until the last 5 secs and then touchdown kinda stuff.
     
  3. hezey

    hezey Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2010
    Messages:
    2,319
    Location:
    British Columbia, Canada
    That is called Crabbed Approach. I like better, Wing-Low method. I think you can see it in this video:

    http://youtu.be/ztOiYOD3ksU
    Wing-Low method, when done right [I am still learning to do it right, this is not perfectly done, but is okay...I guess] doesn't require that nose being in the wind, which I find can lead to a roll and even a crash when touching the pavement, because the lift in the wings has now changed at a time when ya really don't want to be rolling.... I am not sure which method is better, I have watched vids of Heavy Metal Planes, like airliners using that crabbed method. Maybe it is for some reason I still have to discover.....
    Mr Mumble? Comments?
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2013
  4. mumble

    mumble Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2007
    Messages:
    1,315
    Location:
    in a bar
    That wing low approach is a lot of work. That's why I like the crabbing until you get as close to the flare as you feel comfortable with. That doesn't mean fall asleep at the controls and collapse your gear/roll off the runway (Actually saw someone do that IRL. Lunched a good plane, but they got out okay.), but get a nice little snap to aligned toward touchdown. It takes awhile to get used to it, and puts a lot of work load on at a critical moment. Once you've got it down, it's almost mechanical. You don't even have to think about it, you just do without thinking.

    That said, low wing approaches are a good way to get started on getting a feel for transition from crabbing to landing alignment. I don't see anything wrong with that approach other than it's a lot of work to keep your plane going where you want it, and since you have your controls crossed for the entire approach, airspeed management becomes even more important.

    Since you have your rudder kicked over to one side already, and ailerons trying to keep level during a low wing approach, it makes stall recovery somewhat challenging at a critical moment, with very little altitude to recover. That means keeping a very sharp watch on airspeed, and I find it's slightly more demanding than the crab method.

    So, both are valid strategies, but keep in mind the strengths and weaknesses of each approach and make prudent decisions on when and where to use them.
     
  5. hezey

    hezey Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2010
    Messages:
    2,319
    Location:
    British Columbia, Canada
    Well, I have time, all the time in the world. This is a simulator, so I am not having to rent a plane or maintain one I own or pay an instructor ....
    Yes, I have noticed the load and been considering it, uh, when wing-low, it does take concentration and great care all during the final, concentration that might be better used flying the plane, instead of fight a crosswind. The crabbed method requires, like you said, a critical moment at touch-down, but no wrestling before.
    If I take care and do proper approach, the ground effect should help keep me from rolling over, uh, which could happen when suddenly the two wings have a different lift from each other, hence grinding a wingtip or worse.
    Seeing as I already seem to know, completely by accident [Air Combat Sim flying], the wing-low method, I will practice the crabbed, trusting your advice. I will spend the cold moths of winter having no fear of crashing a airplane.
    :p
     
  6. looseleaf

    looseleaf Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2006
    Messages:
    5,026
    That's why BUF jockies get all the fun... (B-52 ) .

    They can turn the landing gear 90 degrees left or right.

    So they can point the nose almost any angle and still have the gear rolling down the runway straight...
     
  7. hezey

    hezey Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2010
    Messages:
    2,319
    Location:
    British Columbia, Canada
    I wonder if the newfangled fly-by-wire teck has circuitry to accommodate sudden sheer, uh gusts......
    ?
    In small aircraft, those gusts and shears can reek havoc. I suppose in Heavy Metal too..... But I don't fly much Heavy Metal in sims.
     
  8. mumble

    mumble Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2007
    Messages:
    1,315
    Location:
    in a bar
    FBW does have some code in the computer(s), and some specialized actuators/control surfaces to help correct for turbulence at cruise, and it does to some degree help maintain stability during all phases of flight. However, due to the slower speeds at landing, it is less effective since the control surfaces impart less force.