::sigh:: What the hell has now been done to the 109E? What is this crazy almost irrecoverable spin? Regards, Jochen
Yeah once again golds get an ALMOST irrecoverable spin and the reds get an irrecoverable spin...opps thought i was alsap there for a min...Just jokes...
I will, biz. I'm sure this constant correction of undamaged models is affecting more than just the 109E. The reason I mention the Emil is that it's a plane I am experienced with in FH Online. I am also familiar, from many varied sources, of the handling characteristics of the Luftwaffe fighters. So I consider myself in something of a position to make an accurate comment on this plane. The Bf-109 class was unstable on the ground, to be sure, because of the narrow-track landing gear. But in the air, those ships were by all accounts very stable. I have read that it was almost impossible to put into a spin; excepting something like a malfunction with the slats, one practically had to force the spin by dropping airspeed and holding the controls over. Even then, to recover was usually as simple as letting go of the stick and maybe touching a bit of opposite rudder. Any model of the 109 would literally get itself out of any spin. However, the new WBFH Emil is able to do some weird, forceful spin which I'm not sure how to even describe. All I can say is that it's completely out of place with anything I've ever read about the real plane and any other flight model that I have ever used in a simulator. I am sure this isn't the only such instance - from what people say, it seems that many planes on FH now act as if they're flying through jelly, not air. With each new version, I feel that though FH makes many positive strides, we are regressing more and more with the flight model accuracy; it seems like it is being overengineered in a very negative way as a whole. Purely referring to the developments in flight modelling, I think we were much closer back in the days of, say, version 1.42. It felt more accurate and was more playable as well; both of those variables seem more and more neglected. It's highly disappointing to me. That said, I'll ask you to say something on the F6F. I will mention that my first favorite fighter class was the F4F Wildcat. Ask -alw--; I darn near got kicked out of my first squad in 1999 because I was so insistant on flying that plane, in an arena where all three countries had a full Pacific planeset. I loved it, got very familiar with it, read books and manuals on it, examined real ones, and talked with their pilots. But it has been years since I've flown the Grummans consistantly enough, or read enough material on the planes, so I'm not thoroughly familiar with how they - especially the Hellcat - should handle. However, I certainly do have the resources - just not the time - to pick this up. (I have spoken with Hamilton McWhorter, the first Hellcat ace. He flew the F6F for quite awhile and shot down 12 aircraft in it. I also know pilots with recent flight time in F6Fs.) But I wouldn't comment on anything I'm not really familiar with. So what do you think of it? Regards, Jochen
It was more playable, but not necessarily more accurate. If you take the time and care to compare real-life charts, and data you will find that most planes in FH are modeled with acceptable accuracy. There will always be certain planes with some issues (because of the way the flight model is coded), but we are trying our best to find and fix those issues. The spin characteristics is something that's been released in the last FHL version, it is still in its toddler shoes (not even kid's shoes). This means it requires tweaking, and tweak it we will. The thing is just: the developers only have so much time, and apart from adding certain planes that are wished for we spend much of our time on tracing/chasing flight model problems. This goes alot further than some spin characteristic you can avoid by flying a bit farther off the edge of the envelope. Well, planes flying through jelly eh? I always found it to be that way, always, it's no change with this release. To be honest, I'm not sure about the F6F, or any of the Cats actually. I know they were porked, and then they were cut down. That's all I can say, won't speak about stuff I don't have knowledge of either. BTW, whatever I say about the flightmodel gives me bad rep. I suggest the guys that can't handle my postings either ignore me or go play another game Of course, you're free to give me bad rep anytime you want, I won't care, but you're just wasting your life doing it <Z>
Sure joch, any info is always a good thing whether used or not, if anything i appreciate it PS> how was it hangin with furher for awhile?? I would have liked to have met him in person too . Also about aircraft flying through jelly, well i noticed this long ago only i compared it as water to air. I believe this was implemented many launchers back to lessen the warping effect to some degree, but i have always felt it took away handling. I always though myself as well as many others that 1.76 and 1.77 were very good versions even earlier versions. even the first couple of launchers were still very playable and usable. but 1.63 was the worst as far as playability goes. 1.64/r2 is a slight step up from 1.63. about the spin if it is in its infantcy, then i guess we can all expect improvements. but even with nose down full rudder the F6F I was in wouldn't recover and i had a long way to fall. i think this might be attributed to the currently modelled elevator control for the Hellcat/F6F which is very slight or unresponsive. The Hellcat had a very sizable elevator and should be quite good in that aspect or atleast much better then the current vator modelled here at FH. Anyhow i know and most others do to that other aircraft have issues too. But would it be so hard to revert back to earier version of warbirds/FhLaunchers? and insert the newer aircraft as is and tweak them? Wouldit be possible to have another poll perhaps to see if man ywould like to revert to an earlier version? this might be a hard thing to do, because now a days their seem to be many new pilots who would only know the last few launchers, but i think if they had the chance to try an earlier warbirds/FhLauncher they would change their minds in a heart beat. I would love nothing less then to bring the fun back to this sim. just my opinion, please don't take it to heart, but i think i am not alone in this wish. <S> bullet
The thing I dont like about reverting to an old FM is that so many new planes have come along since the most accepted versions of WB. So then we would be left with old style FM on classic planes with a kind of patched feel on newer WB planes....But it may make things easier since then we would only need to address newer planes and their relation to previous version flight models..... Anyone follow?
Hi biz, Thanks much for your input! And yes, the F6F sure does have a large elevator; need to find my pics from the old Reading PA Airshows. BTW - hanging with fuhrer has been and continues to be a lot of fun. I'm all for reverting to at least FHL 1.42 while patching with the new planes. It was plain and simple a better balanace of realism and playability. These two variables together - with perhaps an emphasis on the latter, surprisingly not the former, are arguably the most important aspect of online simming. That's why I play WBFH and nothing else. Regards, Jochen
But I dont think everyone realizes how many planes have been added that are swings of varients. We would have spit LF's that behave nothing like a spit v. What would a 109g14/r6 fly like compaired to old 109g2 base in 1.42? This is one area where I more than recognize the difficulty for admins....
Ah so my bud from Curitiba is still in your area, well perhaps i will have to persuade you guys to visit Buffalo this summer. Ask fuhr if he ever had a tea called Mat'e i think it is very popular in his area. I'm just curious because I drink so much regular tea. I do hope you have showed him where to get the best Philly cheese steak subs/hogies . The reading airshow, if you go again my old buddy madjak (from elite) i do believe he frequents that airshow. I'll have to tell him to yell into the crowd and ask if any Fh pilots here?? I myself go every year to the Cleveland airshow. I have a couple videos made, 2003 had a pretty good assorment of U.S. WW-II aircraft, F6F, F4U, P-40, P-38, P-51 (although the p-51 only taxied, I believe it had a mechanical prob so no lift off) in 2004, a few less WW-II aircraft but still a nice show, Me and my two daughters climbed aboard the Memphis belle (no flight just checked it out on the ground) it's amazing how small it really is on the inside, and what seems a small area the bomb bay is. So much for the B.U.F.F. name they were given lol. Airshows are great, I plan on going to Dayton Ohio this year and see the Airmuseum. heard its quite large. anyhow you and fuhr continue to have fun, and tell him i said Oi. <S> bullet
Oi Bullet! chá mate is one of my addictions heheh this is, I think, the oldest producer in Brazil - www.matteleaousa.com - and their HQ is in Curitiba. I actually even met the president in a congress I was helping to promote... I'm still planning on coming to Buffalo, as soon as I can, as I will hold you on that (those? ) Lambrusco. Hopefully Jochen will be able to come too. I know by-tor is around here somewhere but he is still hiding, can't find him by-tor, I was just kidding you had to buy the beer, we can split! Come out and play Anyway, let's stay in touch, maybe we can even meet in Dayton Warm regards,
Great then lets try to make a plan to meet this summer as long as youand joch don't mind coming over to Buffalo, I'm really a stay at home kind of guy. I have a buddy of mine in the sticks (beautiful countryside) we can stay at for an over nighter or two, we could have a bonfire and i'll bring the Lambrusco and burgers I'll bring lots of various blues music for you fuhr, and a very good selection of classical music for joch, Haydn,Bach,Vivaldi many more too. I would offer to stay at my place but i just don't think my wife would go for two strangers in the home sleeping over, a visit sure but she won't go for staying over. And mat'e i have never tried but me thinks I would like too, I have to keep my eyes open for it. Hmm bytor, well he went awol sometime back. Hey Byt you around??? even ronin coming along would be nice, he got pissed off at 1.63 when i did and left too, but ofcoarse i come back to try out new launchers. anyhow old ronin is only a couple hours from me too, would like to have him along too Hey Ron you around or read here anymore?? gotta run, keep me posted if you guysdecide and make a date to come to Buffalo. <S> bull
