gunnery/damage combat results for AIKE

Discussion in 'Warbirds International' started by illo, May 30, 2000.

  1. illo

    illo FH Beta Tester

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    Overall it feels far better that in start
    but in some situations far from perfect.

    problems i found out were:

    1.from hi angle guns work far better than from 6 position
    (right for AP ammo, wrong for HE)

    2.fuselage damage for MG151/20 doesnt work well.

    shot from hi angle: takes about 1-6 pings with mg151/20.(seems good)(pk 1 and fuel 1or2 ping kills)

    -shot from dead six p40: 80% ammo shot from d2 hit sprites for most. After situation at channel 100 pilot (badger?) reported many many pings. (ca. 40)and only elevator lost. all hits concentrated in same spot at rear fuselage(he was flying straight with no elev)

    Btw. i was drilling his 6 for over 4seconds continuosly.(looked bit funny to see sprites flying like leaves in autumn)

    So something is wrong here. MG151/20 should break that tail in few hits...now it takes 40% hits of total 109f ammoload with nothing but elevator lost. so check it. MG151/20 ammo is not AP but MINE shell.

    many similar situations as with p40 has happened with other acs...very similar results. Allthough my fire has NEVER been so concentrated [​IMG]

    So i have to come to conclusion, that this gunnery model favors turn&burn planes and pilots. And remember AP is good for high angle shots, thats why it is used in spit or hurri. MG151/20 uses HE MINE ammo so its effective for breaking ac structure or firing fuel and good for 6 shots. (btw. have you checked which planes had self-sealing fuel tanks? because that is major thing when counting possibility of explosion or fire.)

    So game is fun to play again, but ill call it a sim after fuselage break effect for HE/MINE
    ammo is added [​IMG]

    When this gunnery/damage will be adjusted and
    developed it will be much better than old one
    for sure. Aike is working with no financical benefit from this, so all is from his good will [​IMG]

    thx

    ------------------
    -illo-


    [This message has been edited by illo (edited 30 May 2000).]

    [This message has been edited by illo (edited 30 May 2000).]

    [This message has been edited by illo (edited 30 May 2000).]
     
  2. illo

    illo FH Beta Tester

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    Today i was testing against b24. Results same as against fighters. 80 pings(7,9+mg151/20) from hi-even alt 7pos d5-d0.5 to rear part of b24. resulting lost elevator. I bet in ww2 planes hardly ever were downed by loss of elevator...at least i have never read about such situation.

    now 3/4 of my kills come from
    enemy losing his elevator...then i may try to finish him and run out of ammo [​IMG] high angle shots kill rest 25% by sudden explosion.

    i dont want to fight 109 in unhistorical way.
    i want to be able to kill fighters from low 5,6,7. Most of my deaths come from losing elevator (hard to land 109 without it) or losing hstab in time delay.

    I dont expect to kill bombers easily
    (wartime average was 20-30 hits mg151 to down b17. [counted from b17 wrecks at ground])WB team originally decided to do buffs harder
    for playabily(no over 100 plane formations in wb) and it maybe good to keep buffs bit harder so they can survive to bomb and rtb in FH.

    Please do something to end my endless drilling for low 6 [​IMG]

    most success reports from real 109 pilots end something like this:" i dived on his low 7 and when spit v filled my wind screen i fired short burst to his belly....spit went down in flames/exploded throwing debris and oil on me"

    not like "i fired and fired for allmost 5 seconds continously, when this stream of countless rounds lined from bottom to his tail i saw small piece falling of from his tail, my ammo was out, he kept flying straight and i knew he was out of game and forced to ditch"

    huh again im just frustrated, sorry. i know you do your best [​IMG]
     
  3. illo

    illo FH Beta Tester

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    something changed at yesterday? i dont know, but i was flying 109f and things worked much better. Maybe i got luck or maybe damage model is better now [​IMG]
     
  4. illo

    illo FH Beta Tester

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    today i was doing ground attack in 190a4 and noticed something weird. 1-2 .50 cal ping ripped my wing off 3 times, my hstab once.

    It should only do 13mm hole and penetrate parts in its path, its AP round so it can no way rip wing metal structures off. .50 damage should be to fuel, engine, oxygen, (ammo in some change),pk, strings to controls, and guns. but airframe damage needs much ap rounds. remember AP rounds for inner systems+pk. HE/MINE for structural. MINE is delay HE so it penetrates in fuselage or wing and explodes there.

    Other thing is that ack aims to pilots head
    not to aircraft.(causes too much pks). This was discussed once at Ien forums so i know its fact, but i think it cannot be changed.

    So next thing should be to adjust damage for
    AP, HE and MINE.

    0.303=AP
    0.50cal=AP
    Hispano I&II=AP (1945 AP/HE)
    MG17=AP
    MG131=AP
    MG/FF=MINE
    MG151=MINE
    MG151/20=MINE
    MK103=MINE
    MK108=MINE

    Japanese cannon=HE/AP mix
    jap mgs=AP

    Russian can=HE/AP? not sure
    mgs=ap

    ps. once i even got "Your cfuselage will be destroyed in 60sec" from 4 0.50 pings...well
    if it fired fuel??? i cant get how 8 AP rounds could otherwise cut plane in half.
    can you tell?

    see you

    ------------------
    -illo-


    [This message has been edited by illo (edited 01 June 2000).]
     
  5. illo

    illo FH Beta Tester

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    Today i flew 190a4. i followed spit in zoom dive that started climb. i shot 10% round burst at him from hi angle. so he went in flames immediately, then he pushed his fire button down and managed to hit my vstab
    from my 12 clock position with 2 hisp rounds.
    i lost rudder and vstab!!!!

    I think that 2 20mm APs cant do that.. and i dont think he even had clear line to my vstab. so has the bullet flown throungh my whole plane and removed all bolts keeping vstab attached fuselage or what!!!??? very odd i must say. Lucky pk i would have understood, but not this.

    And with this general damage model(same parts in all planes) Spits even HO mostly when im in FW. Before i shot this stupid spit before
    they started firing...now with delay damage they can do their shot too...and often i lose my wing or my wing fuel tank(real 190 doesnt have wing tanks) explodes. And mostly with 1-3 hispano pings. Ap rounds though wing should do much nothing more than little hole
    in each side...or maybe with luck they could hit ammobox(not sure if it even is in wing)

    just reporting what i see.

    Thinking FW190 as a plane which could stand heavy punishment doesnt seem very good now [​IMG]
    with most deaths being from 1-4 pings. Maybe just poor luck, i dont know.

    ------------------
    -illo-
     
  6. wolfer

    wolfer Well-Known Member

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    It's not poor luck,all that you say - true.I'm too flying on FW-190,and then i got few hits,after 5-10 sekonds i'm loose vator and rudder in one time.Toughness FW-190 very low or armament of SPIT,HURR too high.
     
  7. krause

    krause Well-Known Member

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    Last RPS gunnery/damage was to strong.
    Got several times killed at d7 from yak by
    single cannon ping in my Fw190.
    In the New RPS the beginnig was great, hard to get a kill w 109E most times but with accurat aim 3 kills in a sort.
    With new damage/gunnery modell pain begin.
    OK Me 109 F looks like right now !
    Fw 190 Firepower is actual lower than in 109 F ;-'((((
    Damage Model of Fw 190 weaker than in 109 F,
    actuall feels like flying in Zeke instead in Fw 190 ???
    Esspecially Spitfire Gunpower to much to strong !!!
    In German Planes don t open fire before d1 or
    less and spent a lot of hits to get a kill.
    In Spitfire spray and pray 1-3 MG hits at d5
    and Fw 190 PilotKill or 1-2 critical Hits
    ;-((( very Far from realistic.
    Also i don t understand Ammo Type !!!
    Never there was used single Ammo for 1MG/Canon always a mix of 5 ammotyps, variation/mix wasn t standarized, depends in
    favor of single Pilot !!!
    Hope ta get -ossi- soon back from Holliday,
    his grandpa get 76 kill streak in WWII, he
    may report about
     
  8. popper

    popper Member

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    Illo, you are wrong constantly pointing to the only ammunition type for the MG151/20 (MG/FF) gun being the MINE round. As far as I know there were at least 5 types of rounds for the MG151/20, and at least two of them were semi-AP rounds (AP/HE and AP/I). Your favourite MINE round proved to be ineffective against some kinds of targets like the Il-2. However, we don't know what rounds are loaded into WB ammunition belts.

    [This message has been edited by popper (edited 04 June 2000).]
     
  9. illo

    illo FH Beta Tester

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    Well yup these that i pointed earlier were
    WB ammo belts, really they used mixtures of different ammo. I admit im wrong in this subject [​IMG], i thought that WB had some base to their ammo assortion.

    Btw. still many cases i Є've read at net say that AP was basic round for hispano until 45.
    This is at many pages, but i dont have any real info so [​IMG] If someone knows tell me.

    Btw there was many types of german HE and MINE rounds maybe 8 different explosive mixes and loads.



    ------------------
    -illo-
     
  10. popper

    popper Member

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    At present I don't have any exact information on this subject, but I remember there were HE/I, AP/I, and solid AP rounds for Hispano. Unfortunately I can't remember the year of their appearance.
     
  11. niklas

    niklas Active Member

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    germany
    there was a superb thread at the AH Forum over the 151/hispano question. you can reread it here (good info in the middle part, but warning: looooong thread:) )
    http://www.hitechcreations.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/003173.html

    and a new thread started over mg151-ShVAK comparison. Surley interesting for our russian friends here. In this thread a very nice picture is included, have a look (shell 2 is english .303 not german 7.9mm in the picture)
    http://www.hitechcreations.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/003714.html

    [This message has been edited by niklas (edited 07 June 2000).]

    [This message has been edited by niklas (edited 07 June 2000).]