Joystick and Rudder Pedals

Discussion in 'Warbirds International' started by RayV, Oct 29, 2002.

  1. RayV

    RayV Well-Known Member

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    Is there someone who makes use of HOTAS(USB?) and rudder pedals with WB2.77?
    Everywhere i read this(2 USB devices) is not possible, but i know there are people who make use of pedals.
    I'm curious of what you guys are using to fly your warbird.

    I'm using a Logitech Wingman Extreme with self made rudder pedals and throttle.

    Want to buy Saitek X36(orX45) combo in use with my rudder pedals but will this work with WB2.77?

    :joystick:
     
  2. thomba

    thomba Well-Known Member

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    H.O.T.A.S.S:

    watch this thread (only german sorry).

    i controll my plane with MS SideWinder ForceFeedBack Pro1 and Simped Rudder Pedals.

    and yes, it is possible to use usb-stick and pedals.
     
  3. RayV

    RayV Well-Known Member

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    How is the rudder connected to de stick?
    1)Do they both use their own USB port?
    2)Or connected with y-cable to gameport?
    3)joystick connected to USB and pedals to gameport?

    When rudders are connected, does all the buttons, hat and axises work?

    Maybe you can tell me more about the pedals too. What potmeter did they use?(100kOhm?) 1 Potmeter or 2?

    you use special drivers? or just the ones that came with joystick?

    Someone use Stick, throttle and rudder pedals with WB2.77??

    I know, lot of questions... just curious, so i'll keep on asking :)

    Plz help :)

    BTW, Ich danke dir Thomba! Deutsch lesen ist kein problem :)
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2002
  4. thomba

    thomba Well-Known Member

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  5. Buzz-403

    Buzz-403 Well-Known Member

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    To Thomba

    Hi Thomba, any chance of translating the important points in that link to English? :cheers:
     
  6. thomba

    thomba Well-Known Member

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    no prob, buzz.

    post the unknown words in here and i will translate them. it would be too much work to translate the whole threads :rtfm:
     
  7. illo

    illo FH Beta Tester

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    If you have USB stick, rudder needs to be connected to gameport.

    Then just check Rudder/Pedals box from joystick setup.

    It should work fine AFAIK.
     
  8. Maletin

    Maletin Well-Known Member

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    a warbirds-pilot in the usa told me, he used a usb-hub with usb-ch-pedals and a usb-joystick.
     
  9. RayV

    RayV Well-Known Member

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    But is there anyone who can conferm this working with warbirds Illo?
    Everywhere i reed this, they said it's not possible.
     
  10. zarzar

    zarzar Active Member

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    I have a similar problem.
    I have de HOTAS Cougar that has USB connection for stick and throtle on gameport on the stick. I can play with it correctly but I don't have any pedals and when i play with Hotas the rudder don't work on keyboard, why??
    I must play only with stick and no throtle to can play correctly.

    Joystick and throtle = like W98 = no rudder on keyboard
    Joystick and throtle = like winXP = no throtle and rudder on keyboard work right
    Joystick only = winXP = work fine with rudder on keyboard


    PS: Sorry for my bad English
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2002
  11. illo

    illo FH Beta Tester

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    -2 usb devices is not working with WB 2.
    -1 usb and 1 gameport works in WB 2.

    in WB 3 both works.
     
  12. Honker

    Honker Member

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    I use a Saitek X-45 HOTAS and a CH Standard ANALOG rudder pedal set.

    The X-45 is plugged into the USB port of course, and the analog rudder is plugged into the gameport as usual... with or without an attached joystick.

    It works great! You even get to use the trottle mounted rudder bar as a "banded switch" for a key or macro function - so you still get a useful function for that replaced control (however, the banded key only seems to work in one direction).

    What you have to do is install a special driver available at http://home.att.net/~stickworks/

    You then modify a configuration (simple text script) file for the X-45 so that the HOTAS looks for its rudder input via the new driver which in turn links to DEVICE 2 in the MS gaming options utility.

    In MS gaming options utility the X-45 is set as device 1 and the analog rudder (and optionally an attached analog joystick) is set as device 2.

    If you have already installed your X-45 you have to run Saitek's "NUKE USB" utility to uninstall the HOTAS. The next time you boot up the HOTAS will install itself to the modified configuration.

    If an analog joystick is attached to the rudder pedals, the ANALOG JOYSTICK will not function in this mode - just the rudder pedals - because the special driver only looks at the rudder axis input, leaving the HOTAS for all other axis inputs. If for some reason you want to temporarily use the analog stick and pedals you simply reassign them to device 1 and set the X--45 to something else.

    It is possible to install the analog pedals without an attached analog stick but be sure to get the appropriate driver and a little utility that fakes out the system so that it appears a joystick IS attached - allowing you to use a keyboard key as a "trigger" to calibrate the analog device.

    All this stuff can be found with more detailed instructions at http://home.att.net/~stickworks/ The drivers are freeware and are endorsed by Saitek.

    This stuff also works with the Saitek X-36 - in fact the drivers were originally targeted for this earlier HOTAS.


    Hope this is of help

    << Gatlin >>
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2002
  13. RayV

    RayV Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Honker! That is the joystick set that i want to buy...now i know that it does work!!!! Only the stickwork links revere to a site that is (temperary) down. (but i guess that i allready downloaded those drivers) ':D'

    The following drawings are an indication on how to build an Y-cable and optional connection, to use and switch, between the 2 setups of the peril pedals MKIII.
    Perils pedals MK III (don't know if this link still exists)
    In my case i made a throttle too but had to give up my "Hat switch", sinds i needed to use the pins reserved for the hat. So it's possible that when you use pin 9 and 11(stick 2 X-Axis) you have to give up something. Otherwise use another pot connection to try(i suggest 9 and 13(stick 2 Y-axis).

    I DO NOT HAVE AN USB JOYSTICK YET, SO I CAN NOT GARENTY THAT THE USB CONVERTOR WORKS SINDS I HAVEN'T TESTED IT. IN MY OPINION IT SHOULD WORK THOUGH.

    For joystick connector lay-out: Joystick documents


    (For everyone out there who like to build this following setup. i'm NOT RESPONSABLE for any damage to your computer or the correctness of the following drawings. It's just an idea of how to make a option to switch between the 2 perils options. Befor you build this, make sure you have searched the internet and studied the joystick and gameport connector carefully. I can only help and try to answer questions as much as you like. My advise is, that you will not try to make this if you do not know what you are doing! You can damage your gameport or computer with wrong connections!)
     

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  14. RayV

    RayV Well-Known Member

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    So your setup would become looking like this:
     

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  15. Honker

    Honker Member

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    Last edited: Nov 17, 2002
  16. RayV

    RayV Well-Known Member

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    Thanx Honker :)

    Indeed it was the side i visited allready and donwloaded the drivers.

    :cheers:

    Next Friday i'm going to buy the saitek x-45 or x-36 set :joystick:
     
  17. Buzz-403

    Buzz-403 Well-Known Member

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    USB Pedals

    Here's a problem...
    Converting your USB pedals to 15 pin Gameort.
    Anyone know if using a Female-Female USB adaptor to connect the USB pedals to a Male-USB-Female Gameport adaptor, then using a Male-Male 15 pin gameport cable to plug into your computer gameport will work?

    I think it will.... :confused:
     
  18. RayV

    RayV Well-Known Member

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    Honker,

    Can you plz tell me which drivers you use for the x45?
    I can't find the saix45.inf file. I think i have newer drivers and i'm searching for the 0ld ones now.
    Can you post the x45 drivers for me?

    I can't find the files or any lines i need to edit as they speak of :(

    thanks
    Ray
     
  19. Honker

    Honker Member

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    Ray,

    The files that StickWorks released for the X-36 work just fine for the X-45. There are no revised files for the X-45 nor are any needed. The files you do need can be found at:

    http://home.att.net/~stickworks/swdownld.html

    If you intend to use analog rudder pedals with an attached analog stick you need only:

    X36DRV04.ZIP

    The analog stick/rudder are set up as device #2, the Saitek X-36 or X-45 as device #1.

    Its a little more work to set up rudder pedas without an attached stick, but if you want to go that way, the files you need are:

    RDDRONLY.ZIP and...
    JOYREGS.ZIP

    The RDDONLY file contains the "rudder only" drivers and the JOYREGS file contains a utility that allows you to use the keyboard as a joystick "fire-button" when calibrating your analog rudder.

    The following are instructions are from the X36DRV04.ZIP file - except that I have edited them to apply to the X-45.


    *** X36PDLS: StickWorks Analog Pedal Driver X36 USB ***
    Copyright (c) 2000 by Robert L. Church
    http://www.stickworks.com
    All Rights Reserved

    Beta Version 0.04 Driver Notes
    ==============================

    Overview
    ========
    X36PDLS is a small add-on driver for use with the Saitek X36 [X45] USB stick. It
    works only with the USB stick and only under Windows 98. There is no support
    for the X36 [X45] when run in Gameport mode, nor is there any support for Windows
    2000. Basically, the driver simply replaces the value that the X36 [X45] normally
    uses for rudder input, that from the rocker on the throttle handle, with a
    value derived from the Joystick #2. This allows analog pedals to be plugged
    in, configured on Joystick #2, and used normally. If you've been using the
    "R-Only" file that comes with the JoyRegs utilities on my files page to use
    the pedals in sims such as Flight Simulator that allow configuration across
    multiple joysticks, the setup is basically the same. The main difference is
    that, once the driver is running, the value will come out on the Joystick #1
    R-Axis as well when the X36 is running.


    Disclaimer
    ==========
    This is a beta driver and all caveats apply. The driver is offered on
    an 'As Is' basis and is without warranty or guarantee of any kind. Under
    no circumstances will the author be held liable for damages or data loss
    resulting from the use, misuse, or inabilitiy to use this software. YOU
    USE THIS SOFTWARE AT YOUR OWN RISK. The use of this software indicates the
    acceptance of this disclaimer.


    Distribution
    ============
    This software is free for personal use, but it is not in the Public Domain.
    The driver and it's associated files are copyrighted materials and protected
    by both US and International copyright laws and under no circumstances may
    they be posted on any web site, bulletin board, or distributed via other
    electronic means, nor may the be redistributed on CD, disk, or other media,
    without the express written permission of the author.


    Acknowledgements
    ================
    I'd like to thank Ron Hunt of the Saitek Help Center (www.saitekhelp.com)
    and James Hallows, author of Fox2, for their help and comments during the
    beta testing of the X36PDLS package. Special thanks are also due to Ron
    for developing the INF file modifications and installation procedure used
    to get the X36PDLS driver set up. His knowledge of the X36 and willingness
    to help have been invaluable in getting this all together.

    Thanks again, guys!


    X36 [X45] Setup
    =========
    The driver requires some manual installation. The easiest way seems to
    be the following:

    1. Disconnect your X36 [X45] from it's USB port.

    2. Run the NukeUSB utility to remove your existing Saitek installation. If
    you need instructions on how to do this, check Ron's page for more info.

    3. Make a back-up copy of the INF file for the X36 [X45]. This should be found in
    your \Windows\Inf folder as SAIX36.INF [SAIX45.INF]. Watch out that you don't pick
    the SAIX36.PNF [SAIX45.PNF] file by mistake.

    4. Start NotePad, click the "Edit" button, and make sure that "Word Wrap"
    is not checked.

    5. Use NotePad to open the SAIX36.INF [SAIX45.INF] file in your \Windows\Inf directory.
    You'll need to set the file type filter in NotePad to "All Files" to get
    the INF files to appear.

    6. Using the "Search Option", look for the word "LowerFilters". You should
    end up at a section that looks like this:

    [StdUSBFilter.AddReg]
    HKR,,LowerFilters,,"SaiUSB.sys"

    7. Change the second line in the above so the section looks like this:

    [StdUSBFilter.AddReg]
    HKR,,LowerFilters,,"SaiUSB.sys,x36pdls.sys"

    Basically, you just need to add the ",x36pdls.sys" part to the existing
    line.

    8. Save the SAIX36.INF [SAIX45.INF] file and close NotePad.

    That pretty much takes care of the X36 part of the basic setup.


    Pedal Setup
    ===========
    The next step is to decide how you're going to supply the pedal input.
    If you have a stick/pedals that you can configure on Joystick #2 and
    have the pedals operate as they should, then you only need to go into
    the Game Controllers applet, click the "Advanced" tab, and assign
    Joystick #2 to that device. Make sure it's calibrated normally. This
    is the best way to do it if you have a such a setup as it leaves things
    connected as you normally would have them.

    If you have only the pedals, you need to drop by my site and go to the
    "Files" page. Find the file "JOYREGS.ZIP" and download that. Follow the
    instructions in the ZIP to install the "R-Only" file and configure that
    to Joystick #2 in the Game Controllers applet. You'll need to run the
    JoyClick utility before you start the Game Controllers applet so that
    you'll have a button to click when you go to calibrate the pedals. Once
    R-Only is installed, calibrate it in the Game Controllers applet.


    Driver Setup
    ============
    The last step is the selection and installation of the driver itself.
    There are three versions of the driver in the ZIP name x36pdls.sy1,
    x36pdls.sy2, and x36pdls.sy3. All the driver version work basically
    the same, they read Joystick #2, extract one of the axis value, and
    use that to replace the value that the X36 uses for it's R axis. The
    difference is in the axis they use from joystick #2:

    x36pdls.sy1 - Uses the "R" axis from joystick #2
    x36pdls.sy2 - Uses the "X" axis from joystick #2
    x36pdls.sy3 - Uses the "Z" axis from joystick #2

    If your joystick #2 setup has a regular joystick and pedals connected
    to it, the pedals will be activating the "R" axis and you need to use
    the sy1 version of the driver.

    If your josytick #2 setup only has analog pedals connected to it, you
    need to use the "R-Only" setup from the JoyRegs file available on my
    site. That moves the "R" axis to the "X" axis and so the sy2 version of
    the driver is appropriate.

    If you're using CH USB Pedals, they bring the pedals out on the "Z"
    axis, so if you're using those you want to use the sy3 version of the
    driver.

    Once you've decided which driver is most appropriate, rename that file
    to "x36pdls.sys" and copy it to your \Windows\System32\Drivers directory.


    Operation
    =========
    Once the INF file has been edited, the correct file has been renamed
    and transferred to the Drivers folder, and the pedals are up and operating
    as Joystick #2, it should just be a matter of plugging the X36 [x45] into the
    USB port. The INF file will cause the driver to load, and you should have
    pedal control over the R-Axis of the X36 [X45] .

    The new R-Axis is only seen as analog, the rocker on the throttle handle
    still controls any scripting you've applied to the R-Axis with the SGE.
    The pedals will also be what you see in the SGE if you move them, but if
    you do any programming there, it's the handle that will control it.


    Uninstalling
    ============
    The uninstall procedure is simply a matter of running NukeUSB again, then
    restoring the original SAIX36.INF [SAIX45.INF] file from your backup, and plugging the
    X36 [X45] in again. You'll probably want to "Remove" the R-Only stuff in the
    Game Controllers applet if you've installed that, too.

    -------------------- End of Document --------------------

    It is not necessary to change the driver file naming format from "x36pdls.sys" to "x45pdls.sys" although you can if you want to, so long as the calling line reference in the SAIX45.INF is also modified to suit.


    Hope this helps,

    Gatlin


    p.s.

    My computer crashed when I opened my e-mail client this evening and I lost about 4 items amongst which was a message from you. Please resend the message or respond here.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2002
  20. RayV

    RayV Well-Known Member

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    cc.. found all that.

    But the problem still is where to find :


    \Windows\Inf folder as SAIX36.INF [SAIX45.INF].


    I don't have them...can't be found.... maybe they have other names....but which? There is no file containing

    StdUSBFilter.AddReg]
    HKR,,LowerFilters,,"SaiUSB.sys"

    ????????????????
    Where did you find these line? How is your .INF file called?


    :confused:

    But the stick works fine after installation of the drivers shiped with my X45 stick.

    I don't get it.... :dunno:
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2002