Hi, Is anybody else noticing a rather disgusting lack of performance with the centerline-mounted MG-151/20 in the Bf-109F-4 and Bf-109G-2? I have heard several pilots, including three tonight, comment on how these 109s are nice planes, but their guns, and in particular the 20mm, are impossible. For the past several ToDs at least, it's seemed almost impossible to connect with the 20mm. I deliberately engaged in head on attacks tonight to ensure no-deflection, and I also had a few *point-blank* shots from dead astern against unmaneuvering targets, including a Spitfire. Most of the HO attacks were against F4F Wildcats, but there were also some incidents with TBF Avengers. Large, radial-engined targets. The results were disgusting. In one event, I hit a maneuveing F4F from D2 in on seven separate occasions. Only once did cannon hits register, and only 1 or 2 of them then. Another time, I bounced an F4F as it climbed from the CV. In my point-blank pass against an unmoving target, the MG17 7.9mm guns registered 25 hits, while the cannon connected twice. A moment later, I went dead on against a TBF from astern, ignoring otto, with the intent of testing. My aim was true, but the cannon trajectory was off. From inside D1 (a miracle I survived that long,) the MGs registered another 35 hits, while the cannon connected only six times. Post-mission debrief indicated that the MGs had hit 56 times; the 20mm only 8. One-in-seven again. The guns on the Bf-109F-4 and G-2 are concentrated in a rather small space; how does this happen? In several head on attacks, I saw my shots hit home right on the engine or cowling of the Wildcats, but over 85% of the time, the results were with MG only. Not once did I connect with more than 2 cannon shells, according to show hits. The nose-mounted guns of the Bf-110C also seem to be messed up the same way; I was shooting at a stalling Spitfire at D1.0. Two cannon hits and nearly 30 MG hits registered. The weapons in the 110 nose are very concentrated. With that sort of accuracy on the MG, especially at such ranges, the twin cannon should definitely do more damage. For the record, the ballistics on the P-38's centerline 20mm also seem to be very innacruately-modeled. What bothers me is that the troubles with the centerline-mounted Messerschmitt cannons are *very* consistant. I have tried all sorts of convergences and close-in shooting ranges, and I have heard similar complaints from many other players. I have to say it seems as though the 20mm is being affected by some sort of arbitrary will; the tracers do not seem far off when one fires in level flight, or on the ground. But in reality, something unreal is going on with these weapons. Jochen
Whoops! Did not mean to include the F-4 model in that complaint. Got to check the G-6, though. Gustav-2 DEFINITELY has a problem of epic proportions, though. Jochen
cc jochen! Besides I hardly believe that kind of setting can be done at server, (convergence/dispersion) without some changes at misc.bin, I agree 100% W/ U, I noticed that in the last , let´s say, two TODS my HO engagements come to be so much "disfavourable" (sry bad eng) to me, wich do not ocoures before, when in such kind of combat my gold planes show a much higher rate of victories... Now in a Ho engagement I´m happy when I could run away without be killed (killed 2 times in a row to -alw- (P40) in HO; one to bullet (spit) in HO, and other 2 that I cant recall... My 2 cantavos...
Joshen. Mg17 and Mg151/20 have different ballistics. So if you are not shooting from direct six you can see situation where you hit only with Mg17 while Mg151/20 miss seldom. Try to fire from cannon only. Thats can increase your hitrate dramaticaly. Also 109F4 and 109G2 have same mg's and cannons.
Hi RGreat, I understand that MG17s and MG-151/20s have different ballistics. At point-blank to close range, it should be rather simple to score hits with all three guns in one burst. Shells have different ballistics and dispersions, but at the ranges I'm shooting, these are negligable at worst. I am also aware that the 109F-4 and the 109G-2 have the same armament. This is why I am so perplexed; the cannon scores hits fine in the Fritz, but the Gustav-2's cannon has some whacky troubles with hitting. And I have already tried firing the 20mm only. It's still much more tricky to hit than it is with the Fritz. This is not behavior consistant with the same weapons layout. Jochen
i shoot only with cannon last tod streak of 52 in 109s no problem at all accuracy of ~12% no strafing
Hi Jochen, I have not testet the performance of the 109er guns too much. But considering the difference in the guns of 109f and 109g-2, you should be aware that the enemys of the 109g2 are much better armored than 1941, when is the f comes out. Last TOD i was runing from a 109 with a la7. the guy made more than 10 20 mm hits in my back until his ammo was out and he accused me as "cheater" ( i accused him back as "dweeb" ) flying the 109 myself i made the experince that once u get used to th "pissbow" of the 20 mm gun, you are able to make very precise hits on the enemy pilot - every attempt on "spary an pray"-tactics as you may do in a Spitfire ended in a desaster and mademe the king of assist-kills Thats my experience. So i'm not quite sure if the 109 is just a tricky plane, or bad modelled as u say. greetz, chato-
I fly the G2 and 109F-4 85% of the time have have an average accuracy of 16-17% for Air to Air only. Malino
