OT: Sixty-two years...

Discussion in 'Off Topic International' started by Jochen, Sep 30, 2004.

  1. manoce

    manoce Well-Known Member

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    honestly speaking.. hans joachim marseille... i don't feel much about him; mb bit unsympathic to me (you know.. sort of go-go guy, who doesnt really care about rest of world)

    biles... i like
    :)
     
  2. Glas

    Glas Well-Known Member

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    @ biles: I wasnt referring to your comment about Darwinism when I posted. I quoted the sentence I was talking about, im sure an intelligent guy like yourself didnt miss that ;)

    @ manoce: I like biles more than I like marseille, put it that way. I just respect marseille's ability as an aviator :)
     
  3. Harpoon

    Harpoon Well-Known Member

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    I have to agree, he obviously had brilliant skills as a pilot but he was still a nazi.
     
  4. biles

    biles Well-Known Member

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    Glas is right. I did get political.
    Sorry.
     
  5. manoce

    manoce Well-Known Member

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    yes, glas
    i was just insipired by flygav's comment ;)
     
  6. Glas

    Glas Well-Known Member

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    I hadnt read that post. I see what you mean ;)

    The thing is, you would have to put absolutely everyone who fought for Germany in WWII under that same umbrella. I dont think that's a fair and just assumption.

    If everyone is to be judged on the acts of their Govt, then we are all in some way murderers, genocidists, rapists and pillagers.

    That's not to say im sad that he met an untimely death - he was killing mostly British pilots.

    But someone made a valid point earlier. Apart from the BoB, his only other involvement was with the Afrika Korps. I cant see any possible way that he could have known the atrocities being carried out in Germany, Austria etc. Fuck, even the British and US intelligence services had no idea of the scale of the carnage that had gone on - how an aviator who died in 1942 would know is beyond me....

    Sorry for taking this way OT, I just felt I had to explain my view :)
     
  7. badger

    badger FH Beta Tester

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    Wow! This Darwin must be a hell of a pilot to get Marsielle.
    I'm afraid to imagine what streak this Darwin got in the end of war :D
     
  8. Red Ant

    Red Ant Well-Known Member

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    Same here. The other thing is I will never be able to truely honor or even respect someone who fought for the Nazis, let alone someone who fought for them with such vigor and enthusiasm, whether they were actually a fan of the nazis or only did what they thought they had to do. I will not disrespect the guy but I refuse to honor him. No <S> from me.
     
  9. HJM---

    HJM--- Well-Known Member

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    Totally disagree. I've read a lot about Marseille...actually, from what his colleagues told, he didn't give a fuck about nazi party, commanders or discipline AT ALL. He loved to party, drink, hang around with women, wear casual clothes instead of uniforms, paint his car etc...but most of all, he loved to fly and to fight.

    PS. one time, when his commander grounded him, he took a plane, got airborne and strafed entrance to his tent...totally wicked guy :)
     
  10. Glas

    Glas Well-Known Member

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    Edit: fuck it, I wont argue with ppl so ignorant to facts.
     
  11. big-jo

    big-jo Well-Known Member

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    exec saw the future :rolleyes:
     
  12. Red Ant

    Red Ant Well-Known Member

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    I assume you're talking about me? If so, would you be so kind as to point out which part exactly of what I've said is evidence of ignorance on my part?
     
  13. airfax

    airfax Well-Known Member

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    @red ant:
    Maybe it's that part. IMO they just try to honour a good pilot, not a nazi-pilot.
    Dig up some US pilot, and I'm sure they'll honour his achievements too. IMO this is not a nationality thingie.....

    airfax :@drunk:

    (edited: PS. Marseille was good fighter pilot, you have to give him that...)
     
  14. Red Ant

    Red Ant Well-Known Member

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    Hey, I realize that. It's the fact that highly intelligent and dynamic men like that either failed to see or simply chose to ignore the wrongness of the system which they fought for that I find VERY disturbing.
     
  15. airfax

    airfax Well-Known Member

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    It's disturbing,allright. But in situation, when the country is preparing or is in war, even intelligent men start to hesitate, whether is it a good choice to stand against the system. Life is cheap at war times....
    Sorry, I went little OT.
    Anyhow, history has always respected good fighters/soldiers, no matter what or who they fought for or against.

    airfax :@drunk:
     
  16. manoce

    manoce Well-Known Member

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    well _this is cool :)

    __________________
    ehm.. "ontopic" :
    soldiers : i find saluting them for their achievements.. bit.. "out of the bowl"; no matter which side they fought for. either they liked killing and thus they were assholes, or they didn't care.. and that doesnt make me worship them either; or they were in fucking bad situation - they felt its their duty and obligation to fight and kill and suffered for doing so (hard decision taking you know); and these are the only ones which i respect and feel for -- but not for their ability to kill and survive, not for their mastery in using the weapons of war; but for the decisions they had to make; and i have very intense feeling that they were not really proud of their "achievements" and would not be really happy if someone would glorify them for that;

    well at least i would feel it so if i would ever decide to fight (and you can be bloody sure that in such case i would become The Ace.. umm .. ehm ;) )



    of course one can admire the technical part of the matter - what the "experten" these guys were.. yes, after all that's what we are playing simulators for.. to be die experten, to be the aces.. nevertheless that has very little to do with the character of these guys

    from this point of view.. these kind of threads... smells

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2004
  17. Glas

    Glas Well-Known Member

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    @ manoce: Pilots are a different breed altogether though. Save for a few pilots who were obviously Nazis and deserve no commemoration, for most it was a case of man against machine in a very frightening, disorientating environment.

    That one man can step above that and master his machine (like, perhaps, in motor racing or biking or yachting today) is something deserving of respect imo.

    Ive read nothing to suggest Marseille took delight in killing. In fact, one quote which struck me especially was after one of his first successful dogfights in North Africa, I think it was the one where he downed 6 P40s in 8 mins. After rtbing, he told a fellow pilot 'I think i've got it'. He had mastered his tactic that would allow him to attack the enemy sucessfully, and escape with his own life intact. This is something all pilots strived for, and he achieved it.

    But I wont piss in to the wind. Ive made it known why I respect someone of his ilk, end of discussion for me.
     
  18. Jochen

    Jochen Well-Known Member

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    Humm. Looked at the date and remembered my old favourite fighter pilot, and that his life ended seventy years ago today.

    Then I remembered posting little memorials here, on the sixty-second and sixtieth anniversaries of his death.

    Then I noted, as I do ever more often with age, the passage of time. Eight, ten years to the day since we were right in the thick of it on WBFH. How time passes. Thoughts like this lead to many considerations.

    But today, recognizing a date which is forever ingrained in my personal memory due to a historical fact, I stop briefly to remember Marseille and the war dead in general - these, yes. I also remember fondly the WBFH community, which is still here, and which has come together in large part due to our shared appreciation of this little chapter of history, and the people who lived it.

    I miss you guys, my friends, rivals, and comrades, most of whom I have never had the pleasure of sharing and handshake and beverage with in the "real" world. I hope you are all well, and I dream of a day when we might take our knights' hearts into the virtual skies again.

    >S<!
    Geoff
    (Jochen, C.O., JG27 "Afrika")
     
  19. Mcloud

    Mcloud Well-Known Member

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    the game is dead for 3 years now. just some people left on the forum.
     
  20. Jochen

    Jochen Well-Known Member

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    Oh, I figured. I haven't even come to the forum since December, it seems.

    I'd also be very surprised to ever fly again like I once did. Even should there be a game, I invested such a tremendous amount of time and effort into WBFH that I don't see myself ever being able to duplicate again.

    But I can still dream. :)