P-47 vs FW190

Discussion in 'Engineering Retrospective' started by newtry, May 2, 2004.

  1. newtry

    newtry Well-Known Member

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    http://jambock.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?topic=517&forum=14

    Сравнительное тестирование P-47D-5 и Fw190А5.

    "Here is my transcription of a test done in 1943. I obtained this test from a secondary source. You should be able to obtain copies of the original tests from USAAF records. The test was done to determine the ability of the P-47 to engage in combat with FW190's at lower altitudes.

    The test is a comparison between a Fw190A5 (From the pictues shown, I believe this was a British captured A5/U8 which had landed mistakenly at a British Field, later supplied to the USAAF. It shows no outer wing Cannon or cowling Mg) and a P-47D-5. For the test,the A-5 had its two inner wing Cannon removed and equivalent weights substituted. The FW190 was described: "...as in exceptionally good condition for a captured airplane, and developed 42 inches manifold pressure on takeoff." The P-47 was equipped with Water Injection, but no Paddle Blade propellor.

    The tests were done between S.L. and 15,000ft. The pilot of the P-47 had 200 hours in P-40's and 5 hours in the P-47. The Fw190 Pilot had 300 hours in twin engine, 500 hours in single engine and 5 hours in the Fw190. Four separate flights of one hour each were conducted. All speeds were in IAS.

    >>>>>>>>>

    Recorded Results

    1) Acceleration

    (a) 210mph to 275mph at 2,000ft. The Fw190 accelerated faster than the P-47 and gained approx. 200yds during the acceleration.

    (b) 210mph to 275mph at 5,000ft. Results: Same.

    (c) 200mph to full power at 5,000ft. The Fw190 accelerated faster than the P-47 initially and gained about 200yds, but at a speed of 330mph the P-47 rapidly overtook the Fw190 and gained about 2,000yds very quickly and was still accelerating. Water injection was used by the P-47.

    (d) 220mph to 300mph with full throttle at 15,000ft. Again the Fw190 initially gained about 200yds but the P-47 quickly overtook it. The FW high speed supercharger cut in automatically at this altitude, and this supercharger seemed to cut in at lower altitudes when a speed in excess of 340mph was attained by diving.

    2) Climb

    (a) 2,000ft to 7,000ft, starting at 250mph. Both airplanes were pulled up rapidly to the angle of maximum climb and held until altitude of 8,500 was reached. The Fw190 climbed faster than the P-47 through the first 1500 ft, but the P-47 quickly overtook it and steadily outclimbed it by 500 ft per minute. The P-47 used water injection and slightly overheated, while the FW190 did not overheat.

    (b) 10,000ft to 15,000ft, starting at 250mph. Again the Fw190 initially outclimbed the P-47 through the first 1,000ft, however the P-47 rapidly overtook and reached 15,000ft while the Focke Wulf was at 14,500ft.

    3) Diving

    (a) 10,000-3,000ft, starting at 250mph diving at an angle of 65 degrees with constant throttle setting. The Fw190 pulled away rapidly at the beginning, but the P-47 passed it at 3,000ft with a much greater speed and had a decidedly better angle of pull out.

    4) Turning

    (a) Turning and handling in excess of 250mph. The two airplanes alternately turned on each other's tail, holding in the turns as tightly as possible and alternating the turns first left then right. The P-47 easily outturned the Fw190 at 10,000ft and had to throttle back in order to keep from overrunning the FW190. The superiority of the P-47 in turning increased with altitude. The FW190 was very heavy in fore and aft control, vibrated excessively and tended to blackout the pilot.

    (b) Turning and handling below 250mph. Turns were made so rapidly that it was impossible for the aircraft to accelerate. In making the usual rather flat turns in a horizontal plane, the FW190 was able to hang onto its propellor and turn inside the P-47. The FW190 was also able to accelerate suddenly and change to a more favourable position during the turn. However it was found the P-47 could get on the tail of the Fw190 by making a figure 8 in a vertical plane. In this maneuver, the P-47 , which was being pursued by the Fw190 in level flight attempted to execute as series of climbs, slow turns, and dives which would end up with the positions reversed and the P-47 on the tail of the FW190. The maneuver started with a a steep climbing turn to near stalling point, followed by a falloff and fast dive which ended in a pullout and fast climbing sweep whch again carried the plane up to the stall and fall off point. The P-47 built up more speed in the dive than the FW190 with the result that the Thunderbolt also climbed faster than the FW190 and also higher. The P-47 pilot merely waited for the FW190 to reach its stalling point below him and turned very neatly on the tail of the falling away FW190. With its much greater diving acceleration, the P-47 soon caught the FW190 in the second dive of his maneuver.

    Conclusions

    The P-47 with its tremendous firepower is at least as good as the FW190 at low altitude. There should be no question about engaging the FW190 in dogfight at low altitude; but it should be remembered the FW190 is a good airplane and has advantages at slow speeds."
     
  2. illo

    illo FH Beta Tester

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    How many operational p-47s had methanol injection?
    For test to be "fair" why not have fw190 equipped with mw-50 too? ;)
     
  3. PressLuftHammer

    PressLuftHammer FH Beta Tester

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    Not "fair" :) Fw.190A-5 not have avail MW-50, imho A-8 too.
    But best see test Fw.190A-5 vc F4U-1A ;)
     
  4. badger

    badger FH Beta Tester

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    All early Thunderbolts used the R-2800-21 engine. Water injection capability was added to this engine beginning with the D-4-RA and D-5-RE production blocks. Provision was made for the mounting of 15-gallon tank carrying a water-alcohol mixture to the bulkhead just aft of the engine. A line from this tank was plumbed directly into the fuel intake. When injected into the combustion chamber, the water checked a dangerous rise in cylinder head temperature while manifold pressure was boosted. For brief instants, a 15-percent increase in engine power could be obtained, giving a maximum war emergency power of 2300 hp. In the D-5-RE, D-6-RE, and D-10-RE (D-4-RA, production bolcks, the pilot manually controlled the water flow of the injector, but the injection procedure was automatically- controlled on the D-11-RE (D-11-RA) and subsequent blocks. This happened when the throttle was pushed forward into its last half-inch of travel.

    When installed at the factory, the water-injected engines were designated R-2800-63. The R-2800-63 engine began to appear on the Farmingdale and Evansville production lines with blocks D-10-RE and D-11-RA respectively. Kits were also made available for the retro- fitting of water injection capability to earlier P-47Cs and Ds. Since they were already built to accommodate water-injection, the D-4, -5, and -6 could be quickly modified, but the D-1, -2, and -3 and the earlier C-2 and C-5 each required about 200 hours of work for each addition of water-injection capability.


    http://home.att.net/~jbaugher1/p47_4.html
     
  5. -exec-

    -exec- FH Consultant

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  6. badger

    badger FH Beta Tester

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    К чему относиться-то?

    P.S. Не цитировать фразы на которую отвечаешь - это теперь так круто считаеться?
     
  7. -exec-

    -exec- FH Consultant

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    аха. так более загадочно и стильно.
    "How many operational p-47s had methanol injection?"
    "Water injection capability was added to this engine"
    "0 :D"
     
  8. badger

    badger FH Beta Tester

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    А в чём прикол ответа про 0, если чуть выше висит цитата с противоположным мнением? Источником из которого следует что 0 не поделишься? Или это какой-то глубокий прикол? :)
     
  9. -exec-

    -exec- FH Consultant

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    в том, что ни один тандер не был оборудован впрыском метанола, елки палки. :D
     
  10. badger

    badger FH Beta Tester

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    Спирт добавляеться что бы вода не замерзала на высоте.
     
  11. PressLuftHammer

    PressLuftHammer FH Beta Tester

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    А метиловый видимо чтобы его не выпили :D
     
  12. -exec-

    -exec- FH Consultant

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    амеры народ не такой самоотверженный как мы.
    у них никогда в истории не было термина "летающий гастроном".
    :D
     
  13. newtry

    newtry Well-Known Member

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    Так бы прямо и написали - оборудован системой впрыска водки в пилота. При использовании впрыска все ЛТХ увеличиваются на 50%, особенно маневренность, т.к. самолет становится статически неустойчивым. Негативный эффект - падают ВПХ и самолеты...