Questions about buffs

Discussion in 'Warbirds International' started by Glas, Jul 8, 2003.

  1. Glas

    Glas Well-Known Member

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    Having recently discovered the art of buffing, I have been spending more time doing this than anything lately in the Arena. But I have a question or two, which may only be specific to gold planes:

    1. I noticed last ToD that towards the end, the JU88-A1 is removed and we are left with the A-4 and He-177. The A-1 is the only heavy bomber we have with a decent climbrate, is there any possibility we could allow it to run til the end of the ToD? After it's removal, buffing becomes so much more tedious in the 2 planes left. (although this may be a moot point if the cs is improved in the next update).

    2. Why does the .speed xxx seem to work on every plane but the JU88-A4? When I do it on the A1 (.speed 135) the plane climbs at approx 210kmh and has therefore a CS of approx 4m/s at 3k metres. With the A4 however, even with the same .speed 135, it actually climbs at 245kmh and, after 3km, the CS is somewhere around 2.15m/s. As I understood it, the climbspeed that you set with the dotcommand should be the actual IAS of the plane as it climbs, no?

    Any help/advice would be appreciated.

    -glas-

    Edited to add, almost forgot...

    3. Can anyone give me some tuition/advice, or point me to a good source of same, for level bombing CVs? Surely there must be a table somewhere that says if you are at x height, going at xxxkmh, then you drop your eggs at x metres from the CV, or something to that effect?

    Thanks again.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2003
  2. Malino

    Malino Well-Known Member

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    Speak to Gsiba or Tigrao, they are absolute masters at CV level bombing.

    Mal
     
  3. Rapier

    Rapier Guest

    Do some Converting of speeds!

    @ Glas
    The climb speed you set is in mph, the speed indicated in "showdata" is given in kph.
    If you set ".speed 135" you will have 135 x 2 = 270 minus 20% = 216 kph (factor beeing 1.6 or x2 minus 20%).
    The climbrate 4 m/s or 2.15 m/s or whatever you get depends largely on the grossweight of the aircraft at the given time. A full ammo and fuel load will climb a lot slower than anything less than that.

    On the airspeed indicator of the airplanes you have either kph for axis or mph for allies. that can not be changed in the set-up. The only thing that changes in the set-up, if you select either "English" or "Metric" or "Default" is the altimeter setting not the airspeed indicator.

    Does this help?

    Result: ".speed 135" = IAS of 216 kph in "showdata"

    Regards
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 8, 2003
  4. Glas

    Glas Well-Known Member

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    Hi rapier, thanks for the explanation.

    Does this then confirm what I thought, that the dotcommand for climbspeed on the JU88-A4 doesnt work? If I set the dotcommand to .speed 135, then my A4 should climb at 216kph. But it doesnt, it climbs at 245kph unlike the JU88-A1, which does climb at a speed somewhere around 216kph.

    This then has an effect on the actual CS, as the faster your IAS the lower your CS, yes?

    @ malino: Thanks mate, i'll chase them up next time I see them in the Arena :)

    -glas-
     
  5. gahis

    gahis FH Sound Developer

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    I good ju-88 tactic I find, is 30% fuel, 4x250, 28x50kg, and at auto angle AOA 4~6 and get to 4km on the way there ((using WEP)) and shoot out all ammo from guns untill only otto gunners only have 10% left, after bomber, glide home the whole way if possible, this make for a very fast good attack if you are unseen...... bomb untill cons are D30 away, then dive home
     
  6. Zembla JG13

    Zembla JG13 FH Beta Tester

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    You live in the French speaking part of Canada?

    Ffeeeeeew, I remember a topic about this in the JG13 mailing list somewhere back in 2001 I think it was :) lemme check if i've got it...

    Well erm, there were multiple threads and posts on different types of bombing sorties, but I lost 'm, all but one, but that one isn't the one you're looking for... ermmmm, well, bombing a CV would be aiming one CV-length in front and flying at 10000ft... something like that... you can test offline, and find your own preferences...



    <Z>
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2003
  7. -exec-

    -exec- FH Consultant

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    you don't count g4m2 as a bomber? :dura:

    as for cv bombing, personally i think that this is game bug. real ship will avoid such bombardment. therefore i won't tell you the method. may be someone another pilot.
     
  8. Glas

    Glas Well-Known Member

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    Of course it is a bomber, but I was referring to those which could close a field themselves :)

    Like most things in WB, this is probably one of those things that experience is better than any teachings.

    Any idea about the JU88-A4 exec, and why it climbs at a speed that is different from the one set on the dotcommand?

    -glas-
     
  9. Comet-

    Comet- Well-Known Member

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    Glas:

    All three types of autopilot, level trim, angle trim and speed trim are using only trim tabs to control airplane. So it can control plane in only limited way. Elevator trim of loaded Ju88a4 simply isn't strong enough to keep nose up at 135mph. That is same for many other planes.
     
  10. RolandGarros

    RolandGarros Well-Known Member

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    I get adequate climbrate out of Ju88-A4 at 150mph =~ 240km/h. not great, but much better than what you get at 135mph...CV level bombing depens on knowing CV's speed, the higher you are, the more important that knowledge is.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2003
  11. Glas

    Glas Well-Known Member

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    Thanks comet :)

    That was exactly as I thought, I just didnt know how to explain it best what I felt was the problem.

    @ Roland: Thanks for the advice, im going to try varying speeds of climb and see if it makes any difference.

    -glas-
     
  12. -exec-

    -exec- FH Consultant

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    therefore B5N2/TBF are bombers at all? :dura:

    specify conditions of the experiment, including load and fuel, and report what charactetistic is reached and what should be reached irl. second statement with proofs, of course.

    after that, the fix is the matter of one email drop.
     
  13. gahis

    gahis FH Sound Developer

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    Hmm, How would U guess?
     
  14. Glas

    Glas Well-Known Member

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    Okay now you have lost me completely...

    My original point was about heavier bombers, like the JU88s and He-177, or the Pe2, B25, etc all of which can close a field in one sortie, and how the gold ones climb so badly. I appreciate there is other gold bombers which climb better, but only 3 can close fields on their own.

    I didn't say there was a bug, I only asked what the anomaly between the A-1 and A-4 were, when both had been set to the same .speed 135.

    The A-1 climbs at approx 216kph (135mph) but when you set .speed 135 on the A-4 it climbs at approx 246kmh. If it climbed at the slower speed, it would have a higher CS and would therefore climb better. My simple question was why this didn't happen?

    Thanks to comet explaining that the elevator trim couldnt hold so much weight as the A-4 at so low a speed (135mph), I now realise why there is the difference in the 2 planes.

    So to go back to my original first 2 points exec, if the gold buffs are going to be set in such a way after the next update that their CS will increase, then all is well and good. If not, I revert to point 1 from my first post and ask that we keep the JU88A-1 for the whole of the RPS, as it is by far the best climbing gold buff which can close a field on its own?

    Would that be possible?

    -glas-
     
  15. HoHun

    HoHun FH Beta Tester

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    Hi Glas,

    >My original point was about heavier bombers, like the JU88s and He-177, or the Pe2, B25, etc all of which can close a field in one sortie, and how the gold ones climb so badly. I appreciate there is other gold bombers which climb better, but only 3 can close fields on their own.

    Have you considered taking up a He 177 with a load equivalent to that of a Ju 88? I think it should outperform the Ju 88 then.

    >I didn't say there was a bug, I only asked what the anomaly between the A-1 and A-4 were, when both had been set to the same .speed 135.

    If you ask me, Warbirds trim modelling sucks in general, and the speed autopilot governor sucks in particular :-(

    Regards,

    Henning (HoHun)
     
  16. Glas

    Glas Well-Known Member

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    I have considered it HoHun but im loathe to drop eggs needlessly. I dont care about my scores, but I do like to make sure my accuracy stays high in my scores.


    I find them not too bad in the JU88A-1 but otherwise yes, I agree.

    Will the climb of the gold buffs be improved? Id like to see the A-1 stay for the whole RPS if not :)

    -glas-

    p.s Thanks zembla for the tips about the CV. I went offline and tried as you said, 3k alt and dropped 1 ship length. Sunk!

    Went online and attacked a cv in 2 runs, 1 with 2x250 and 2x500, and another with 2x1000kg.

    Sunk 2 DDs, the CV itself and reduced the remaining 2 CAs to 50%. And I was able to do it from lower alts also, and with CV moving at different speeds.

    Cheers mate :cheers: