Refugee crisis

Discussion in 'Off Topic International' started by -frog-, Mar 11, 2022.

  1. OldUncles

    OldUncles Well-Known Member

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    Well, it's all fucked now. Apologies for my language...
     
  2. vasco

    vasco Well-Known Member

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    The military here sucked bad before joining NATO.
    The compulsory conscription was a joke, there was no proper training.
    Due to shortages and bad management you got to shoot like 3 time in one year. The ammo and the weapons were extremely old and weren't properly cared.
    The main activity was cleaning the barracks and the base, that was compulsory for soldiers and each one had a designated area that he was supposed to clean.

    Now there's only contract army, tho last year they were talking about enabling voluntary conscription.

    Hopefully now they're better at it. Have been getting a lot of mission and combat experience. And they've been working with the Americans. It really matters, the kind of organization, management, procedures.
    That it matters so much it's visible in how the Ukrainians are holding against the Russians now. Let alone the weapons they've been sent, but the unit leadership is very different, with a lot of small team action and freedom of decision at the lower levels.
    And hopefully care and respect for soldiers, from the military. It's a great morale booster, unlike Russians'.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2022
  3. mcgru-

    mcgru- Well-Known Member

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    so, how do you feel it ? :)
    and why you didnt agree to open borders with Russia in 2013? you preferred then africans and arabs, but strictly not russians :)
    now you got them! :D
     
  4. mcgru-

    mcgru- Well-Known Member

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    Crysis-whoisthis?
     
  5. -frog-

    -frog- Well-Known Member

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    I guess it's our long history of not trusting Russians.
    They always stabbed us in the back, when we were the weakest.

    Prior to the current crisis we actually preferred Africans than you folks.
    I guess 2/3 of Uber and Bolt taxi drivers here are either Ukrainian or African.

    I can't understand one thing, maybe you can clarify that - you, Russians, displaced 12 million people, forcing them to leave their homes (and destroying significant number of their dwellings), over 3 million of them left the country, some 9 million shifted westwards, but did not flee the country yet.

    AND YOU STILL HAVE THE GUTS to present that Nazi propaganda of yours?
    After triggering the greatest refugee crisis in Europe since WW2?
    Your're either shameless or brainless... or both.
     
  6. -frog-

    -frog- Well-Known Member

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    I guess @pakman had "xui" in mind.
    Like most of you crypto-gays do.
    Come out of your closets, maybe your government will accept you "as you are" (sarcastic).
     
  7. OldUncles

    OldUncles Well-Known Member

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    I have some Romanian 8MM ammo, but it's not so old. It's cheap and rather widely available here. I think it's still being exported to the USA -- steel casings coated with some kind of varnish, similar to what the Germans produced from 1944 until May 1945. It shoots OK, but after a few rounds the weapon heats up, of course, and the varnish or shellac coating on the steel cases begins to get sticky -- working the bolt action becomes more difficult. I think the Germans complained about that same thing at the end of WW2 (Seelow Heights battles, etc.). A lot of the modern, poorer quality 7.62x39 ammo is made that way, IMHO. Brass is best! We should trust metallurgists in these matters ;)

    We have an expression in English that's used at rifle ranges: "Police your brass." You know, if you shoot, pick up your shell casings when you leave. It's courtesy thing. And sometimes the range management can make a little bit of money by recycling the brass. These days I try and police my spent shells and find all kinds of garbarge steel casings, shotgun cases and "wads." Gotta throw most of that junk away.
     
  8. vasco

    vasco Well-Known Member

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    I don't know those, I know the brass ones.
     
  9. -frog-

    -frog- Well-Known Member

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    Had to search what you meant by "8mm".
    We call that "Mauser - 7,92".
    That's more than sufficient ("Mauser" will suffice in most of the cases) - after WWI all armies here (Central Europe) had their rifles and HMGs chambered for those.
    Never seen these in coated steel casings... it was always bras.
    Dunno about the AK cartridges either... the ones I shot during my brief "relationshit" with our army were "all brass" too (these were 5.45 though).
     
  10. OldUncles

    OldUncles Well-Known Member

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    The steel cased, varnished stuff is made around the world for export. It's a cheap money maker. Or it's made by countries losing a war, such as Germany in WW2. A few years ago there was a gun shop around here that had -- literally -- palettes of the steel-cased ammo. It was super cheap. I think I've shot it all now and only have brass now in 8mm Mauser/7.92 x 57. The best modern 8mm is from former Yugoslavia (PPU) or Czech Republic (Sellier & Beloit). Hope I got those names correct. They are closer to the original German specifications in terms of bullet weight and propellant. The US ammo manufacturers of 8mm are afraid to fully load the ammo, because they're afraid of lawsuits if guns explode. See https://www.youtube.com/user/hickok45/search?query=mauser
     
  11. vasco

    vasco Well-Known Member

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    Guns aren't a thing here, thx gods.
     
  12. OldUncles

    OldUncles Well-Known Member

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    Guns are a big thing in the Ukraine now, though. That very unfortunate place is now going to have more weapons and ammunition than almost any region on earth (at least in terms of overall firepower and destructive capability). For decades to come now, regardless of the outcome of the war, there are going to be *so* many weapons and ammo circulating around Europe. And ironically, a lot of the small arms ammunition being sent to the Ukraine from the West was manufactured in the Soviet Union or ex-CCCP countries. (Just imagine how much weaponry and ammo the USA and some Western partners have sent to Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, all of those places now experiencing democracy. Great places for vacation ideas. And yes, Russia and China, etc., do the same thing.).

    For example, Fallujah is really a great place to chill out at an Air B&B for a romantic weekend. Compare that to Mariopol in the interests of objectivity. Sorry, I went off-topic again.
     
  13. -frog-

    -frog- Well-Known Member

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    @OldUncles
    Ukraine is a civilized country, run by democratic (albeit somewhat corrupt) government.
    It was well organized, with developed structures and state authorities, established laws and proceedings.
    It was invaded by a poorly civilized country (which holds itself for the complete navel, the pinnacle, the cradle of civilization) run by the Tsar-dictator, and his totally corrupt regime.
    This makes it differ from the countries, where either despots (Iraq, Syria, Libia) or anarchy (Afghanistan) ruled for decades.

    Our border guards state that the number of migrants has reached 2.8 million now, but the numbers of those trying to get in are falling, whereas the numbers of those heading back are rising.
    Ukrainians did what Finland did over 80 years ago.
    They believed that they can stand against the Russian bear, and get it by the balls.
    The Fins had to back off, but they were a significantly smaller nation facing the brute force of Stalinist era Russia (and its huge, modern industry).
    The Ukrainians can win, as they are a larger nation, facing the failing army backed by backward industry that can't even make diapers or household chemicals for their internal market.
     
  14. OldUncles

    OldUncles Well-Known Member

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    The Ukrainians can win if they continue to receive modern weapons from the West. It's a cold calculus. Yes, and Finland and Sweden now entertain thoughts of joining NATO. Never thought I'd live to see that, lol ;) Sweden?! (And I'm quite Swedish by ancestry). But seriously, regarding internal markets, the West and the USA are also experiencing problems supplying things such as diapers and baby food. Again, a weird calculus to consider. Who can endure longer? Europe and the "West(TM)", or the Russians, East Asians and China? I sure as hell don't know. And I know a thing or two about diaper manufacturing. The USA is lacking in capability there. All of this "shit," hehe, is very complex.
     
  15. -frog-

    -frog- Well-Known Member

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    I guess this "shit" is one of the reasons Polish govt is not so willing to impose trade embargo on Russia :)
    Poland has, since 1989, specialized in the manufacture of goods no-one really notices, until they need them.
    Huge diaper factories set up by Amies, Belgians (Ontex) but also by our own giants (Hygienika and TZMO - the latter one a really strange company in today's globalized economy - it's owned exclusively by its workers - and it employs over 8000 of them) supply half of Europe.
    Household goods, kitchen appliances, washing machines, tumble dryers, refrigerators - Germans manufacture cars and beer, French manufacture cars and wine... we do white goods, vodka and beer.
    We also manufacture cosmetics... huge amounts.

    We actually have a PLN 100 billion (USD 25 billion) surplus in trade with Germany (our biggest trade partner).
     
  16. hezzey

    hezzey Well-Known Member

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    My county's Largest Trading Partner is Murka!!!!!
    [I think there will come a time we Canadians regret that. We have sat on the USA for everything that we would Rather Not Make For Ourselves.
    Guns Bombs and Warships are very expensive and they do not seem to add ANYTHING to a people's prosperity... I think the only way Canada could ever equal or exceed the USA is if WE MADE BOMBS and GUNS and WARSHIPS and Tore down our roads, our hydroelectric dams, our public Schools, our Hospitals, Sold Our Souls and stuff like that....
    I WISH THE USA WOULD JUST DISAPPEAR, but then where would we get cheep toilet paper and stuff like that???? [Deleted]
    We make bacon here, beer is said [by us] to be far better than Yankee Piss.
    I don't know what would happen to Canada if the Yankees had to defend it's own north I fear they would just do what the Reds are doing to Europe right now....
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2022
  17. hezzey

    hezzey Well-Known Member

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    I think we just have to Put Up With It right????
     
  18. -frog-

    -frog- Well-Known Member

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    @biles
    I have a friend here, born Canadian, with military background, married in Poland.
    He says he loves Poland for its diversity and common sense (election results for the last 7 years excluded), and hates Canada for what it did over the last 10 years to play down its English-speaking population.
    I know he's biased - he's from Saskatoon, and with military background (he was a trooper with Canadian army for over 10 years).
    He always ridiculed Canada's choices of weapons, or its immigration policy, yet he still seems to be well bond to your country (although living for the past 30 years here).

    He's here, because his family is here.
    But I guess he'd be better back at the University of Saskatoon, even fighting diarrhea after "sampling" apples in one of the experimental fields of the University.
     
  19. OldUncles

    OldUncles Well-Known Member

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    Non-woven fabric products are a very big thing in the global marketplace. Before 1991 or so, the US had the ability to manufacture many of these products. But then we sold all of our manufacturing equipment to South Korea and then China -- because we're so smart (a.k.a. "greedy"). There are going to be diaper shortages worldwide soon. Will I be able to buy Russian-grown kasha in the USA? I'm not so sure.

    Now it's almost impossible to manufacture certain basic consumer (and military) goods in the USA (and in Europe). We have all shot ourselves in our own asses. Everyone should re-read the original novel Three-body Problem by Liu Cixin.
     
  20. -frog-

    -frog- Well-Known Member

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    @the previous line - kasha (or rather Polish "kasza") is Polish, not Russian.
    We made groats long before Russia existed (it's estimated that it constituted a large proportion of diet of Polish peasants from the 10th century onwards).
    What you get as "kasha" in your stores are buckwheat groats (although we do know various other types of "kasza" - e.g. the barley groats).
    You will still get your kasha - while Russia is its world's largest exporter... the 3rd largest are... yes the U.S... the 4th is Poland, 5th Lithuania (and the 2nd China, if you still need more).

    As far as self-sufficiency is considered.
    Well we (the "so called West") still have some plants Russia never developed.
    So I guess they are fucked worse, than we are.
    They will also be cut off consumer electronics, including most of the chips required to keep their automotive, mining and consumer goods companies running.
    They have just a few pharmaceutical plants of their own.
    Their chemical industry is underdeveloped, they were importing some very basic semi-products to keep it running.