Refugee crisis

Discussion in 'Off Topic International' started by -frog-, Mar 11, 2022.

  1. -frog-

    -frog- Well-Known Member

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    Just read that the "coffin money" (aka bereavement benefit) amounts to 5 million rubles (roughly PLN 400k).
    And they bought a white Lada with that?
    Does it have golden handles?

    You could buy a brand new Mercedes EQE for that here. And you'd still have a lot left for a lot of additional equipment.
    Or an entry model of BMW X5 (with still some money left for extras).
    And they bought a Lada... with golden handles.
     
  2. vasco

    vasco Well-Known Member

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    Lucky those with many sons, they could buy entire fleets of Ladas.
     
  3. vasco

    vasco Well-Known Member

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    I think of it as a whim, as they've got one step higher on the social ladder.
     
  4. -frog-

    -frog- Well-Known Member

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    They (and to some extent still some of my and your countrymen) are savages.
    In all of the civilized world the fact that you can use public transport to commute is considered of an advantage.
    It's the poorer ones, from areas that are not so well communicated with the city, that have to rely on cars.
    I guess it was Tadeusz Mazowiecki, who was the first Polish PM to get to work on a bus.
    The Civic Platform and its leader Donald Tusk are also well known for using and promoting public transport.
    Mr. Tusk was widely known for using low-cost airlines to commute to Brussels while he was the President of the European Council. Or to go there by train (even though the office alone would enable him to have a private jet rented by the EU). Or to shop for groceries - both in Brussels and in Sopot, where he lives.

    In post-Soviet space the "mashina" (car) is something of a cult item. A golden idol.
    Same with our right wing government - they use the state resources to the maximum.
    Former PM Szydło had a car accident when a government column hit a small city car (while travelling without the required light and sound signals). There were 3 cars in the column, 3 drivers and 5 or 6 security officers. She was going home for weekend (then switched to flying military planes, which was source of another scandal).

    So I am also convinced that one should really perceive that Lada as a status symbol.
    And not just another piece of junk (that you will buy another few of in the coming decades).
     
  5. OldUncles

    OldUncles Well-Known Member

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    My position is that no side is innocent, Vasco. I know that I'm in danger of being labelled a relativist, but I'm old. Do you think that I'm proud of the US sending and spending in yet another war? Proud of my tax dollars going to overthrow governments and fight proxy wars? Knowing that hundreds of thousands of innocent people get crushed in these tectonic clashes of world powers?

    Now, from your perspective -- and from Frog's -- I can understand your concerns. This reality is immediate for you all. And as for us spiritually -- and often and physically -- fat Americans, we just send billions of dollars and weapons to Zelenskiy's government. Maybe he's a hero or maybe he's an asshole: history will judge. I don't approve of any of this war bullshit.

    Seems that this war crap is built into our DNA. And nothing really ever changes. Perhaps I'm a fatalist; just going on my own experience. For some reason we love to kill "enemies."
     
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  6. vasco

    vasco Well-Known Member

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    Are you a Trump supporter?
     
  7. vasco

    vasco Well-Known Member

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    Join the fine club:
     
  8. OldUncles

    OldUncles Well-Known Member

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    I voted for Biden, Vasco. I'm a Democrat. My dearest dream is that Trump will not try to run for president again. Why? Because he is a negative influence on my country (USA). As an old fart I am something of a moderate; old farts don't want radical changes to the left or the right.

    When Kennedy was assassinated I was being baptized in church. I was on the McGovern side of a debate in our school during the 1972 election. In 1973 and '74, during the second Nixon administration, I really started to follow politics. I liked President Carter because he an was ex-Navy nuclear submariner (in other words, he had a very high IQ). Then in 1981 had to register for service, begin to go to uni, etc. Then various jobs and women.

    Now I really don't want to vote anymore, but I'll drag myself to vote like a zombie, because that's how I was raised. But there are many traditional liberal Democrats who don't blindly believe in the party's current directions.
     
  9. OldUncles

    OldUncles Well-Known Member

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    Steven Seagal? Really? I know about him, but he's not exactly an intellectual thought leader. I remember being surprised when I saw photos of him when I visited the Kok Tobe skyline tourist attraction. It struck me as odd at the time. But heck, he was famous. I took a picture of it. And you'd be surprised at the Western celebrities who take or took lots of cash for appearances around the world including ex-USSR nations.

    Here's a funny one:

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-15197717

    They're actors and they will do anything for a payday.
     
  10. vasco

    vasco Well-Known Member

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    So then you're just a regular weirdo, for believing all that "no side is innocent" crap?

    You're probably ignoring that, no matter what one could have accused the Ukrainian govt of, the russian invasion couldn't have been a solution to that. And it wasn't even designed as a solution.
    It's just a regular aggression by a mad dictator and by a society sick with imperialistic nostalgia.
    Add in a lot of war crimes to that and a planned genocide of Ukrainians.
     
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  11. OldUncles

    OldUncles Well-Known Member

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    It's true that I'm a weirdo (in the sense that my beliefs, my ancestral background, education and experiences are weird [these days they'd say that I'm autistic, perhaps, but that's more excuse-making]). I am against relativism; I support attempts at more objective perspectives.

    This war is obviously not a good thing. Many people are dying every day that the conflict continues. So this war needs to stop now. Full stop. Stopping it now benefits everyone -- soldiers, politicians and citizens (not in that order).

    But... I wouldn't call it genocide. I don't know, maybe as a German type that word has a different meaning for me.

    "The war needs to stop." That's my official statement.
     
  12. vasco

    vasco Well-Known Member

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    Let alone the killing of Ukrainians, the deportation of Ukrainian children to russia, while putting them for adoption by russian families is an act of genocide.
    Didn't you come across the russian idea that Ukraine shouldn't exist? That it lacks its own history? That the Ukrainians should be destroyed?
    Such declarations are all over their media, by their most famous current pundits. Browsing this forum should be enough.

    You can't get away with this.
    When you're blaming the Ukrainians for defending their country, or the other countries for helping them, that's shameful.
    The only one that can stop it is Putin.