Refugee crisis

Discussion in 'Off Topic International' started by -frog-, Mar 11, 2022.

  1. -frog-

    -frog- Well-Known Member

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    BBC: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28357880
    CNN: https://edition.cnn.com/2018/05/24/europe/mh17-plane-netherlands-russia-intl/index.html
    Le Monde: https://www.lemonde.fr/idees/article/2016/09/29/vol-mh17-la-russie-confondue_5005430_3232.html
    Guardian: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...tch-reveal-backgrounds-of-ukraine-separatists
    Reuters: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ukraine-crisis-mh17-idUSKCN1TJ30G

    No one sane in the west doubts it was Russia.
    Dutch investigators have reports of eye witnesses, satellite images, and even photographs (with geotags on!) made by those stupid ruSScist war criminals from the 53rd Brigade and published on social media (proves exactly how stupid the ruSScists are).

    Russia is playing dumb.
    Caught red-handed it tries to pretend it wasn't its hand.
     
  2. rgreat

    rgreat FH Developer

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    Correct.
     
  3. vasco

    vasco Well-Known Member

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  4. OldUncles

    OldUncles Well-Known Member

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    Vasco, I apologize if I come across as rude sometimes. It's certainly not my intention. I wouldn't get into exchanges with you and -frog- if I didn't respect you both.

    In real life I'm quite the meek and mild person. And I'm really a very polite and diplomatic type of guy (well, that's how I try to be). It's true also that when I post here, I may have knocked back a few drinks. This information is provided in the interests of full disclosure.

    We have different life experiences and backgrounds. Stuff that we can't easily overcome in chat rooms. But believe me, I don't want to truly insult anyone. Maybe some sarcasm and to argue a bit, but not to insult (because I don't have the energy these days).

    It would be better to argue and debate in a bar with some beer. That's how I think about debates.
     
  5. OldUncles

    OldUncles Well-Known Member

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    I had some more comments to make but I'll hold back. The way things are going, I might actually start going to church again...

    And I'm agnostic.
     
  6. -Shai-

    -Shai- Well-Known Member

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  7. vasco

    vasco Well-Known Member

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    Nothing for you to complain then.
     
  8. vasco

    vasco Well-Known Member

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    Sorry Uncles, I like being direct sometimes.
    But I assure you I'm a great pub companion.

    As a kid I entered a church and I spat on all the paintings while pretending to kiss them.
    With that, I consider my relationship with religion to be concluded.
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2022
  9. -frog-

    -frog- Well-Known Member

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    Exactly.

    If the sanctions are "no biggie" for Russia (see @OldUncles I somehow managed to get this correctly) why do they do so much ado about this "nothing"?

    Automotive industry halted, airlines order their pilots to avoid braking (aircraft brake pads are not something Russia or even China are able to manufacture), economy to shrink 10 to 20 % this year. "No Biggie"
     
  10. OldUncles

    OldUncles Well-Known Member

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    No worries there, my friend.

    Well, spitting on icons? That's a bit harsh. What would your mother say about that? Even if I'm not a religious/spiritual person, I never wanted to offend my parents.

    IMHO, the world would be a better place if we always considered what our parents would do -- even if we don't do what they would do. Just the act of considering it is important. Because even if we don't agree with our parents, they know or knew stuff that we don't. Just sayin'.
     
  11. OldUncles

    OldUncles Well-Known Member

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    Did I post about the sanctions against? I can't recall. I honestly don't know very much about that stuff. All I know is that Western Europe (and Great Britain, and some Eastern European countries) may have a very uncomfortable winter. In fact, many places including the USA may have more uncomfortable winters this year. Energy is one of those zero-sum things. You have it or your don't. It doesn't come from wishes, moral stances or on the backs of unicorns.

    You have it or you don't. How much one has is directly related to one's comfort and economy.

    BTW, my paternal grandfather met my paternal grandmother when he delivered a wagon-load of firewood to grandmother's family farm.

    I know about the US auto industry, and things aren't ideal now. Everyone is dependent on Taiwan for chips/components. China is stealing as much as it can now -- while the getting is good, as we say -- but that won't go on forever. And think of Apple: my stupid iPhone is nothing if FoxConn, based in Taiwan, has mainland China production interrupted.

    If one really looks at the world economic scene, we're in a period of great realignment. I predict a lot of fun in the future. I just want to take a nap in my hammock and tend my garden. I am Chance the Gardener:



    https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0078841/
     
  12. vasco

    vasco Well-Known Member

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    Geez, Uncles.
    You're getting all preachy.

    Sometimes societies need more of this:
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2022
  13. -Shai-

    -Shai- Well-Known Member

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  14. vasco

    vasco Well-Known Member

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    My "microdonating country" is currently taking defence very seriously, buying a lot of modern weaponry - some of it to be built right here.
    There was not much to donate to Ukraine, but building a modern army to guard against russian imperialism is as important.
    Indeed "no worry too".
     
  15. -frog-

    -frog- Well-Known Member

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    You didn't.
    But you posted about my inability to refer to Russians with capitalization.
    As you see (hence the note in my post) I can call Russians "Russians".
    As long as they are not the ruSScists of this forum.
     
  16. OldUncles

    OldUncles Well-Known Member

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    But your example is one of resistance against the Church, not rebellion against one's parents, non? But yeah, at the societal level we need periodic rebellion, but if one had good parents, there's no need to hurt one's parents. I'm old and I know I caused my parents anguish and stress, and I wish I'd never done that. I could have been more polite about telling them that I didn't agree with them. But for example, when my mother was dying, I went to church with her sometimes. Why? Because it made my mother happy. I couldn't help her physical suffering, but I could make her feel better. I didn't want to be a nihilist and deny my own mother and father (that is, cause them extra emotional pain) when they were dying. When they were sick, I never argued with them about religion or anything -- out of respect. They knew that I didn't agree with them but they took comfort if I didn't fight about that stuff.

    I'm too sentimental to be a committed communist or whatever. What I do know is that it's wrong to hurt our family and loved ones unnecessarily. I had some good and intellectual conversations with my mother's Lutheran pastor, for example, and I quickly saw that he didn't believe in God as my mother did. But I never told my mother. And I didn't care, because the guy was a modern intellectual, and it's normal these days. I'm agnostic. But I won't preach my beliefs to anyone.

    It always made me sad when I saw children argue with their parents about religion. 1) It doesn't work 2) It's really pointless. What good can come of it? Just hurt your parents' feelings.

    Ah, yes, let's all re-read Turgenev and Dostoevsky and many other novelists around the world who've covered this subject. Gotta read Fathers and Sons again -- it's relaxing because it takes us away from the distractions of the modern world and focuses on universal truths.
     
  17. OldUncles

    OldUncles Well-Known Member

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    Roger that, but having spoken to real members of the SS, I find it difficult to associate them with anything Russian, if only because they were trying to kill each other. Calling anyone fascist or a NAZI has just become too hyperbolic these days. What about a "predilection for authoritarianism" or something? It's not as catchy, admittedly, but more descriptive perhaps? Snails moving across a razor's edge and all that.

    Anyway, you shouldn't listen to me because I'm an idiot -- and I'm an old idiot. That makes me an idiot "doubly damned" (reference to the great US journalist H.L. Mencken, in whose works I first read the term back in the '80s).

    But whatever. We've got to tone down the us-versus-them rhetoric if we're gonna get through this.
     
  18. vasco

    vasco Well-Known Member

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    I think at that time I was bothered more by the adults using religion to control the young. Nothing to do with my parents tho, for I've been raised in an atheist family. See, we're mean indeed, exactly like they say.

    It shouldn't make you sad. Families aren't all alike. For example, I think my parents would disown me if I didn't argue with them about something.
     
  19. vasco

    vasco Well-Known Member

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    Does "predilection for authoritarianism" describe what russia is doing in Ukraine?
    Does it catch the ideas about the destruction of Ukraine and Ukrainians, about how russians and russia are the summit of civilisation and should rule the lands?

    Only the Ukrainian victory would solve the problem, which is the russian aggression.
    It's not about "wanting peace", but about surviving aggression.
     
  20. -frog-

    -frog- Well-Known Member

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    Never argued with my parents about religion.
    They told me it was pointless, I saw some sense in it, so we agreed to differ when I was 7 or 8.
    So I was baptized (a bit earlier, but that's a long story for another occasion), then went to first communion, and even went through confirmation... just to discover myself that it was all worth nothing (as my parents told me earlier).
    But my parents had nothing against it (my religiosity in Primary School that is).

    By the end of primary school I've read Kant, Nietzsche, Heidegger... and found religion, and Catholicism in particular, pointless.

    My mother is, my father was atheist.
    Two of my grandparents were atheist.
    Only one of my grandmothers can be said to have been a practicing Catholic.

    It was not easy though.
    Especially in the high school.

    Those hypocrite bastards tried to bully me, because (for some time) I was the sole kid that did not take part in religion classes in high school.

    I think we, as a family, just need to get bashed for being non-conformists.

    My gread-grandfather was executed by Germans for aiding Jews in Lublin ghetto, when a lot of Poles (mainly Catholics!) could be accused of doing exactly the opposite during that period.
    Both of my grandfathers, ran businesses in times of communism, and communist oppression of private enterprises (yes, as the "funniest barrack in the communist bloc" the People's Republic of Poland allowed private businesses employing no more than 50 people, we also preserved private land ownership). My father was a hippie and was beaten up by the militia several times, just because he wore long hair (he later joined the Solidarity movement and spent some time in detention for that).
     
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