Russia-Georgia-Ottesia News Explanations PLEASE?

Discussion in 'Warbirds International' started by looseleaf, Aug 11, 2008.

  1. rgreat

    rgreat FH Developer

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    1st: You can swap payload in few days.
    2nd: 10 missilies today, 500 in next 5 years.
    3rd: STRATEGIC defence missilies are severely reducing options for Russian strategic missilies. Do i really need to explain how, or you can use imagination yourself? If you can't - read official military experts.
    4th: Russia provided various options and really flexible cooperation in strategic missile defence, just to be sure it will not be used against us. USA denied our proposals. Promises only: 'trust us', yeah.
    5th: There was other good places to put up these STRATEGIC missilies to defend from Iran and Korea, these was ignored. Remember: USA seriosly considered Baltic countries for these missilies when Poland was still thinking? 500 km from Sankt-Petersburg - is a GREAT place to place missilies intercepting something from IRAN !
    6th: We was strongly against it. We explained it many times. We was still ignored. Nice.
    It was the end of military cooperation with USA. Period.

    Yeah, right. Ask that dumbass Gorbachev. He was crying not long ago about how he was fooled with them.
    Yeah - promises are nothing, unless forced to keep by force.

    For example: Agreement about conventional weapons in Europe betwing NATO and Warshaw pact (flanks restrictions or something) - denied to adapt after large expansion of NATO on the east.
    Agreement about strategic missile defence - broken by USA one sided.
    Just by my memory.
    ..not sure if i name them right in english.

    For example Jameson-Weenic (spelling?) restriction. Read about it. That arhaic shit was about USSR 'genocide' or something like that (of jews) (in 1970th?).
    It is still standing and denied to denounce.
    Btw, how the fuck China is in WTO, Georgia is in WTO, Urkaine in WTO and Russia is not after 15 years of negotiations?
    Russia is the ONLY big country not in WTO?

    Being ignorant don't bring you closer to the truth.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2008
  2. rgreat

    rgreat FH Developer

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    Simple, We suck at P.R. Shame.
    Thats one of the reasons we lost cold war.
    Good thing, that we slowly learning.

    Every one can be thrown in to dirt. Dirt even can be easily maked up if needed.
    Who cries louder - win, and most of people are not really interested in getting clear facts.
    Bigger half of this 'shit flying' is maked up 'facts' or twisted reality or double standards.
    I'm not saying that RF is totally innocent, but its a war out there, shit can and will happen. And it's a war started by Georgia and USA.

    Read above. I explained that just one post above.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2008
  3. -al---

    -al--- Well-Known Member

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    I am not talking about PR. You do not need PR right now, your actions talk for you, and what they're saying isn't any good. Make a few steps in the right direction and then you can think of PR.

    On the other hand you probably know more than any one else that if putin is good in anything it's manipulating people. I am CERTAIN he has shit loads of PR advisors so this argument doesn't convince me one bit.

    And aren't we a little paranoid with the 500 missiles, warhead changing etc? IF it would ever come to that, then you'd have what to complain about. Right now it's just another stick you can poke into someone's eye and make a big fuss out of it. It's not like this kind of rearmament would ever go unnoticed...
     
  4. rgreat

    rgreat FH Developer

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    Yeah, we don't really care anymore about USA opinion.

    You just don't know anything good about our actions. Only bad or twisted things. Thats all.

    Like surrender and disband? CNN will support it i guess. Maybe even Fox will, lol.

    Listen to Russia Today if you want some Russain PR. Not BBC.
    Btw, i presonally listen to Putin speeches like 5 times in a year. And i don't even have a TV at home! (Nothing good to see there except Nature channel)
    Russian populace is very apolitical for now, but we know for sure: Putin is MUCH better for Russia then Yeltsin or Gorbachev were.
    Not by PR but by quality of our lives, national ideas, and the way Russia comes domestically.
    95% of Russains thinks this way.

    No. Its our sequrity at stake.
    Enemy (maybe) strategic missile infrastructure and military radars getting close to our borders.
    I don't know what good Poland citizens will get from this USA strategic missilie base in the middle of your own terriotory, except being a target... but thats your weird president's choice.

    We'd have something to nuke about.

    You underestimate severity of situation.
    We take it serously, you just choose to ignore it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2008
  5. Uncles

    Uncles Well-Known Member

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    RedAnt is simply trying to be objective. He doesn't engage in ad hominem attacks, does he?

    Grobar -- you are somewhere between a Slav and a Western academic elitist. You want to party in London and bang post-modern English ladies, and you prefer to live there. And you are so self-assured. You're an Englishman, whether you like it or not.
     
  6. rgreat

    rgreat FH Developer

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    Just checked all 'georgia.crisis' CNN headlines.
    Not a single word 'Ossetia' or 'Abhasia', only: Georgia, Russia, and alot of USA officials.
    About 70-80% of the articles are from USA or Georgia sources and/or POW.
    Russian sources are scarce and/or edited at best, Osetian or Abhasian source news are not present at all.
    Liked place then whey are edited Putin speech to cut out some very unplesant for Georgia things.
    Way to go CNN.

    So Fox is not present now?
    Free speech = free lies from US State Department?

    Heh, our disputes here change nothing... power of USA PR is stronger then me anyway. :)
    I don't know why i wasted 4 hours of my life on it... :dunno:
    ... off to sleep.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2008
  7. PG monster

    PG monster FH Consultant

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    Originally Posted by rgreat View Post
    Remember installing pro USA/anti Russian marionnette goverments in old USSR republic by the several 'color revolutions'.

    LOL, yesterday I read *AMERICAN* article that said: we inspired revolutions at Ukraine at Georgia.
    I know u'll ask for the proof, but sorry, today I can't find that article again ....
     
  8. PG monster

    PG monster FH Consultant

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    what reputation you talking about?
    During some last years we got the thig : whatever RF is doing or not doing, anyway "west" will blame us.
    The brilliant example is the stupid falsification in London with "russian polonium". Codoleezza (not medias) said "Russia must to satisfact british requrements". She didn't need a proof, because she knows : inpossible to proof the faked stoky.

    Will the army take Tbilisi or not - anyway the histeria continue. (and we all know that nor Turkey, nor any other NATO member don't want to start WW3)

    Pls ask few survived Serbians (of Kraina), how the international (the Dutch AFAIR) troops "defended" them when the Croatians attacked.
     
  9. -mart-

    -mart- Well-Known Member

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    about evil Russia :)
    May I remind U that official USA atom war strategy - "we will strike first"
    and for example official russian strategy - "we will only strike back"

    anyway, the battle is over, the war is won :)
     
  10. -al---

    -al--- Well-Known Member

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    You seem to believe the illusion that there are no other more dangerous weapons close to your cities. There's at least one nuke sub at all time closer to Sankt-Petersburg than this installation, and it has real nukes.

    That's the first thing. The second would be that distance doesn't really matter in a nuke war. If it ever comes to that we'll all end up blasted in a matter of minutes, if there were nukes in poland, moscow would maybe have 30s less time, big deal in the prospect of a dying civilisation...

    US also has a lot of strategic bombers, which unlike most of your post-USSR crap still work, and can be used if needed ;)

    Taken the big picture into account, you can see why russia's big fuss over this installation is silly at best.

    And you're afraid of radars close to your borders? It's not an offensive weapon, it cannot be used to guide offensive weapons, it cannot be rearmed to be used as an offensive weapon. It's purely ground-to-air defensive and again, unless you want to attack someone you have nothing to fear from a RADAR installation.
     
  11. hugo baskervill

    hugo baskervill Well-Known Member

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    I read some articles.

    It looks like Georgians starts attack Ossetia's capital city first.(sry for that, I mean it was some of Russian trick)
    But there is some possible Russian provocation in region which on Georgians react.
    Some articles said that USA coax Georgians to not be outcourt because they can't help them.
    Unfortunatelly Georgians didn't take advice and start attacking city with artilery and rocket launchers(the worst thing they did, 1300-2000 citizens dead, but imho is little immoderate to say, city is totally destroyed, many houses take a hit, but it is not so serious as Russians said) and did what Russians want to do. So Russians invaded whole Ossetia with elite troops and clear some area of Georgia from artilery.

    Even if Georgians started attack, it was propably Russian plan to join Ossetia to R. F.

    Georgian HQ is propably little stupid if they did some great act and did only what Russians want. That is propably why they didn't go deeper in Ossetia into the hills.

    So sorry again for mistake I did about first attacker, but still I think Russians plan it.

    I never understand why R. F. think CS, Ukraine and Poland is part of Russian imperium. That is propably why many of post soviet republics didn't like Russians. Btw when I hear about revenge for radar in CS I though it is good advice for it, because many Czechs want it only for to do something against Russian threats.
     
  12. grobar

    grobar Well-Known Member

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    huh %) :confused:
     
  13. grobar

    grobar Well-Known Member

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    BTW BBC reports that now Yushtchenko wants to give the Ukrainian rockets warning systems for use by the USA. He is also blaming his prime minister (the sexy Timoshenko) that she is supporting the russian interests by "not being vocal enough against the Moscow politics". they are going to investigate her for breaking the national interests.

    i wonder what about the 30% russians that are a minority ukrainian? how far can their government antagonise them?


    Meanwhile US is preparing a NATO meeting in Brussels to decide how to respond to the Georgian crisis. While we have been listening that Russia should cooperate with the 'international community', that it is Russia that endangers relations with the west etc.
    this is the very cooperative stance dictated to NATO leaders:
    (BBC: ) "On the eve of the [NATO] meeting, US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said the West must deprive Russia of any strategic victory from its assault on Georgia."
     
  14. -mart-

    -mart- Well-Known Member

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    ROFL, about this thema we got about 7 years 24000post thread in Offtopic

    edited - 4 years thread ;)
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2008
  15. rgreat

    rgreat FH Developer

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    This:
    Then, this:
    Yeah, 1960ths build B-52's will protect (lol) Poland in thermo-nuclear war.
    Have a nice day.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2008
  16. grobar

    grobar Well-Known Member

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    The rainbow revolutions are one of the best tricks of the USA, Soros foundation, and so on. Almost impossible to detect.


    Still, if one looks around the world carefully enough, he will notice events go differently if the 'dictator' is pro-american or not.

    For example, maybe you remember a few months ago in that very same Georgia there was again the people taking the streets of Tbilisi? Then the democratically elected president (after the previous colour revolution against Shevarnadze) set a national state of emergency and had the opposition beaten by riot police, while its leaders were arrested "for corruption"? Because he was pro-american he got away with it. Not to much bashing from "the international community".


    I follow closely the internal politics of Lebanon. They've had a colour revolution going since 2006. The opposition has been camping in front of the government buildings for TWO YEARS without it conceding to re-elections, the population has been on strike, peaceful marches and so on (however you can not strike for two years). Lebanon had no president for SEVEN MONTHS because there was no quorum in the parliament.

    However any US politician in every single speech, every single non-arab (non-lebanese) media would systematically hammer on about "the democratically elected government standing firm against anti-democratic forces".
    Nevermind that by the lebanese constitution the votes of 40% of the population do not count, they did not count when that government was 'democratically elected'. And its exactly those 40% without a voice who have been camping outside the Grand Serail.
    Mr. Seniora did not have to make any concessions to better political representation in his country because the US was firmly WITH him rather than AGAINST.



    So what the people want may matter, ...but just a bit.



    In Bulgaria we had our own colour events in 1997 (blue). The actual cause that led to mass unrest was however not political freedoms, or against the government's predominantly social politics. It was simply the hyperinflation (from 10 leva for dollar in two months it became 2000 leva for dollar), the mysterious disappearance of the entire national grain reserve (soon there was no bread in the shops), the massive bankruptcy of the banks where everybody lost their savings, and a very organised opposition movement.

    Still, it is not known who caused all these factors to happen? And to coincide?

    The inflation, food scarcity and economic collapse were magically halted after the government resigned and it was certain that the pro-NATO parties will win the elections.


    In 2000 after the Milosevic fall, our prime-minister (earlier, leader of the 'revolutionary' effort) boasted that we have sent experts and agents to train the Serbian opposition with his party's experience in expelling governments...


    ...in the contemporary world people are easily manipulated...
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2008
  17. grobar

    grobar Well-Known Member

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    Just a quick google:
    http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO411D.html
    (on the Orange revolution in Ukraine)

     
  18. -al---

    -al--- Well-Known Member

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    you still do not understand
    NO ONE WILL BE ABLE TO PROTECT ANYONE IN CASE OF A NUCLEAR WAR

    and b-52's were never designed and are not intended to deliver nuclear weapons
    for that they have b2's, b1's etc.

    that was never my point anyway
    the thing is there's already enough of nuclear weapons around the world, that you need not worry about a small installation in poland, which might some day be converted into nuclear silos, which is highly unlikely
    and even if it happens, IT JUST DOESN'T MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE TAKEN ALL THE OTHER NUCLEAR ARSENAL INTO PERSPECTIVE
     
  19. vojtas

    vojtas Well-Known Member

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    why didn't anyone protested when CERN was built? It could be more powerful than any nuclear piece of shit, soon we'll find out ;)
     
  20. Zembla JG13

    Zembla JG13 FH Beta Tester

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    This is something that's pretty scary actually. If it's not only agression, but also defence that can make you guys freak out like this. Honestly, you're holding a gun to the world's head, and you're actually getting pissed off if they're putting on a bullet proof vest.

    Fair enough, there's other countries in the world that are holding a gun to your head as well, but frankly, they seem a lot less likely to strike. At least with nuclear weapons that is.

    What the hell ever happened to the Non-Proliferation treaty anyway? Such a fucking milestone so easily given up by some macho-hotshots who think they rule the fucking world?

    I don't give a shit about Putin or Bush, but I'm bam smack right in the middle of the distance between 'm. If they so desperately want to flex their nuclear muscles, I'll be the first to give them a bomb shelter to do it in, but for fuck's sake, there's no need to drag the rest of the world into it.

    Merely crossing the street without paying attention, (or even whilst paying attention if you're very unlucky) can end your life, why the fuck would I need a nuke for that? What is it with strategic this or that? Is Russia so anxiously jealous of Alaska? Is the US that desperate to get Siberia? What is the fucking point? You're going to blast each other to hell and back, and noone will be left to tell the story. What's the fucking point?

    -Z