Some Aircraft Comparisons

Discussion in 'Warbirds International' started by bizerk, Apr 5, 2005.

  1. bizerk

    bizerk Well-Known Member

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    I posted some of the Aircraft books that I own in the other thread exec, I do not have janes regular aircraft book, but i have many variousones to gather info from, i don't have the time at this moment to post it on the La-5-7 fighters but will later on, but just a quick look I read, the La-5FN could climb to 3,281 feet (1,000m) in 18-1/2 seconds. nearly twice as fast as most other aircraft on both sides. But this doesn't surprise me, since most Russian aircraft were excellent lowalt performers. also was404 mph (650 km/h) at 16,404 feet (5,000m).
     
  2. -exec-

    -exec- FH Consultant

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    here's data for la that developers probably used
    (i'm not sure wether the collection they used was exact as mine)

    nice and very detailed site
    http://www.btinternet.com/~fulltilt/Lavochkin.html

    and two pages from the place i cannot recall
    http://exec.zortex.info/illustrations/Lavochkins/Page09.jpg
    http://exec.zortex.info/illustrations/Lavochkins/Page10.jpg
    ah, found it
    from http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=54509

    they avoid to rely much on impressions like
    "service trials of la-5 manufactured by plant no.21. tested la-5 of series 1, 2 and 3 from plane no.21 all with engines M-82 series 2 prod plant no.19 with airscrew VISh-105 with diameter 3.10m, that took place in 287IAD 8VA at aerodrome higher akhtuba near stalingrad by engineer-colonel Frolov and in 49 red banner distinguished IAP 1VA by engineer-captain Terentyev"
    http://krieg.wallst.ru/frames-d/2/la-5-isp.html
    these real combat reports they use only for minor tuning after they adjusted documented performance characteristics.

    that's the information quality developers usually cannot deny, though they hate to analyse it. information like i demonstrated usually supposed to be provided by consultants and checked by beta-testers. but mismatches can be pointed by any player that knows basic arithmetics, like "4.2 < 4.35" and so on. majority of players just operate things like "stable, fast, outclimb much" etc without elementary capability to compare numbers.

    so, though i feel you want to help as much as possible, your "I use these books for alot of information which gives me a good idea how the aircraft should handle or as some like to say an impression, but I am sure if you seen them you would have the same impression." could help a very very little.

    and malino's "Please fix the Elevator control in the 109, A6M, F6F series planes and please fix the P38 high speed elevator control as demonstrated in the mentioned threads." is useless, since those threads mentionned more "impressions" and even "the game is incorrect" statements and very few shady numbers sunk amongst shouts.

    in this particular question, developers chosen to model performance of early rough manufactured la-7 (year 1944) to save balance. fh furballs often take place at low altitudes, so modelling low altitude über (as it really was, being manucatured with much higher quality of 1945), so la-7 would just ruin the game.

    fh staff accepts all well formed fix requests for implementing, but fh staff doesn't give reports about who prepared fix request and which data is used, because majority of players just don't track when the flame started, why and what conclusions and fixes it caused. and never would want to. including you, because you probably don't remember that i gave reports on the sources used for typhoon and beaufighter trying to stop "developers take data out of hallucinations" accusations.

    i can add that general forum kicked number-rich discussions into another forum named engineering, because it was usually bored and irritated by such discussions.
     
  3. ledada

    ledada Well-Known Member

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    ... lacks any sign of intelligence on your side in first order!
    you seem to have a talent for selling horses though, so collecting
    about such subject might be more appropriate and eventually you should be able to handle them.
     
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  4. gryphon

    gryphon Well-Known Member

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    :) this from the same person who dismissed p47 as basicly a bigger hvy poorer f4f :D
     
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  5. Glas

    Glas Well-Known Member

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    Oh, and dont forget the all-time classic from a while back.

    Which one was it again? The typhoon turns like the Hurri, or the Hurri is as fast as the Tiffie...

    I might go and look that one up again ;)
     
  6. Broz

    Broz Well-Known Member

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    watch out, he might "rest your case" LOL
     
  7. Glas

    Glas Well-Known Member

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    LOL!

    Btw found the quote in question. I thought it was one or the other, but he really did state both;

    http://forum.wbfree.net/forums/showthread.php?t=22205&page=4&pp=20



    I also found the thread again where he claimed he had been in FH for 5 years, but his own profile showed it couldnt be more than 3 years.

    Funny as hell looking at those old threads again :D
     
  8. Allsop

    Allsop Well-Known Member

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    When the fuck did I ever say the p47 was a larger f4f? Im thinking never. I love the p47 and know it was a modle all of its own- very far from anything remotely like an f4f.

    Have you ever even seen a f4f or p47 IRL? The f4f is a shitsmear next to the awesome p47.

    I dont think anyone can gain respect for an aircraft without seeing it in real life.

    As far as the typhoon/fw190 compairison- are they not very simular? Infact so simular that the typhoon only had any kind of an advantage down in the low zones and most repectively in speed. And at the time the FM's were ridiculous.

    AS far as my time in WB- dont let my time of joining the forum confuse you. Ask an admin to see if they can check the name "allsop" to when it was first logged in...I guarentie it was in 2002. And even then I had been playing a private WB host.....

    I still wonder where this p47 is like f4f idea come from....I supose it was spawned in another rotten ignorant mind of a red pilot....pitty.
     
  9. Glas

    Glas Well-Known Member

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    OMFG even after all this time, your still trying to say this?!? Get real man, check the data for the 2 planes. Better still, lets go in to TA. You take the tiffie and me the hurri (any alt) and we engage in a pure turnfight. I guarantee I will shoot you down every time. If the roles were reversed, you would shoot me down every time.

    You really are deluded about red planes capabilities if this is what you believe.

    Now it is 2002? That is 3 years from now. Yet 1 year ago you said you had been here for 3 already. So 3+1=3 now? :znaika:

    You have been pulled up for being a liar on many occasions. Looks like you just slipped up again ;)
     
  10. Uncles

    Uncles Well-Known Member

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    I'm not going to inject myself into the arguments, 'cause I really don't care at the moment (because I just finished doing my taxes, I think)...

    But I helped, in a very humble way, to restore a P-47 a long time ago. What a mother she was! I was in awe of that thing. I was still a teenager, and I just helped strip zinc chromate off panels and fabricate new ones where necessary, but that was cool :)

    It was at this place, where Lindbergh took off!

    http://www.cradleofaviation.org

    I lived right down the street from the WW2-era hangars and fields, and we kids would always poke around in there.

    Man, I was lucky because I also spent a lot of time on-site at Grumman and got to fiddle with cool old planes (especially an old F-86), and watch F-14s taking off for tests and going vertical during my lunch breaks...

    Back then -- and it's ironic considering current events -- many people I knew had Royal Iranian Air Force stickers on their cars, since we were still selling F-14s to the Shah.

    Off topic, I know, but the thread made me remember that stuff :)
     
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  11. Zembla JG13

    Zembla JG13 FH Beta Tester

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    Offtopic... but much more interesting that the read the thread has become :)

    <Z>
     
  12. gryphon

    gryphon Well-Known Member

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    ;) in main arena when we were compaing p47 p38 to 109 and 190 aas high alt fighters. thats what u said. some months ago
     
  13. Uncles

    Uncles Well-Known Member

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    And before I fall asleep, a note about zinc chromate and its toxicity. Apparently the stuff is sure death (carcinogenic). To make matters worse, I recall some old timers (WW2 veteran mechanics) who helped in the restoration, trying to find some paint strippers for me. To strip zinc chromate from P-47 panels, that is.

    We looked all over these old hangars and found ancient containers of chemicals :( I remember one old guy opening one container, smelling it (anyone within 100 feet could smell it), and pronouncing "use this stuff." The stuff was so old, it had begun to separate -- it needed to be mixed up again, whatever it was. And it stank like the devil.

    I used that wretched concoction to strip zinc chromate for a few weeks. It explains a lot about the condition of my nervous system, I suppose ;)

    Also have some original Zeus fasteners from P-47 cowlings and fuselage panels somehwere here in my house, but I can't find them now.
     
  14. hugo baskervill

    hugo baskervill Well-Known Member

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    THX exec, maybe I will find some data about beau and N1K2 and I will do some tests in TA, this site about LA5FN and LA7 is interesting.
     
  15. hugo baskervill

    hugo baskervill Well-Known Member

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    cool, maybe I start flying lavochka, but this spin is strange, I'm not able to recover from it.

    sry for OT.
     
  16. -exec-

    -exec- FH Consultant

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    thank you.
    there are so few people that understand what i'm talking about, and even less of those who can do what is told. :cheers:
     
  17. spuint

    spuint Well-Known Member

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    yeap, good stuff this one :)
     
  18. Glas

    Glas Well-Known Member

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    Ive been flying the La5fn quite alot this ToD. It has got very strange stall characteristics, including high-speed stalls with the correct stick movement. I also thought the spins were irrecoverable at first, but recently I have been able to recover from spins as low as 1km alt, by cutting the throttle and putting full opposite rudder on. Sometimes it has a tendency to then begin spinning the other way, but with some practise I have learned to catch it in time.

    Its difficult, but not impossible, to bring out of a spin. But given the La7 had a landing speed of some 137kph and they are obviously light planes, this would lead me to believe it shouldnt stall as much as other planes and should be easier to recover. I could be wrong tho :)



    @ spuint: Yeah its a good one :) I ended up going from an early night to staying up til 5am this morning reading old threads lol.
     
  19. hugo baskervill

    hugo baskervill Well-Known Member

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    I always put full ailerons to the same direction and full opposite rudder with full throttle.

    I will try your way.
     
  20. manoce

    manoce Well-Known Member

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