i suggest to discuss here spitfire flight performance problems. i do NOT suggest to discuss here problems of killing spitfires format should be as shown below: 1.spitfire mark 2.problem outline 3.conditions of the problem appearance again: FM, not DM, folks, pls.
Spitfire mk 9c. It turns 360 degrees in 17.5 s should turn in 18.5s. Spitifr mk 9 LF rollrate too low. Spitfire mk V b speed represent version that was used over africa with a very draggy dust filtr. I suggest FH should model one that fought over the channel (better balance).
spit5/trop colour? actually i hoped some digital background. but anyways, everyone are welcome to report spit's FM errors and bugs. none allowed to flame and whine.
Hi Exec, >format should be as shown below: >1.spitfire mark >2.problem outline >3.conditions of the problem appearance Hm, would it be possible for you to provide a list of what Spitfires in which conditions we are supposed to have? That would make it possible to jump right to the performance testing stage, or - where applicable - suggest that we should actually model a different variant. If these two issues are confused, the thread will not be as productive as it might be otherwise. Configuration details that come to my mind immediately: - Weight - Air filter status - Exhaust status (3 x 2 fishtails per side, or 6 individual exhaust stacks) - Engine variant - 100% and WEP boost level Good link listing more configuration details and performance data: http://www.spitfireperformance.com/spittest.html Regards, Henning (HoHun)
salut! official fh fiter conditions are 100% fuel at take-off, no bombs, no rockets. long time you left ien/fh i ain't a fiter, so i cannot say wether spitfires have piloting problems. but infinite flame about spitfire makes me think that they have some system error. example of report (numbers are fictional) spitfire lf 9c, fuel 100%, 1000m, wep, sustained turn 19s. ok. spitfire lf 9c, fuel 10%, 1000m, wep, sustained turn 15s. error. since turn time is almost linear from weight, time should be 18s, not 15s. data backround: flight weight with A%fuel = B, flight weight with C% fuel = D example 2 fh spitfire 5b A% fuel climb time to 10000ft = B s irl spitfire 5b C lb fuel climb time to 10000ft = D s data backround: flight weight with C lb fuel = E actually, with spitfire engine mystery, i'm sure only in these: spitfire 1a has merlin-3. no other variants for bob. spitfire 2a has merlin-12. just. spitfire lf 9c has merlin-66. it was inteded by badger as lowalt fw killer. therefore for me totally obscured which engines have spit 5b, 5c, 9c, 14c and seafire 2c. but we can aggree that (for example): spitfire 5b merlin-45 spitfire 5c merlin-55 spitfire 9c merlin-61 due to early date spitfire 14c griffon-61 due to early date seafire l 2c merlin-32 or something else.
Hi Exec, >official fh fiter conditions are 100% fuel at take-off, no bombs, no rockets. Hm, I was thinking about real-world, not Freehost Spitfire 1a Merlin-3 - std wing - fishtails - +9/+12 - 6050 lbs (no pilot back armour) Spitfire 2a Merlin-12 - std wing - fishtails - +9/+12 - 6172 lbs (with armour) Spitfire 5b Merlin-45 - std wing - fishtails +9/+12 - 6500 lbs Spitfire 5c Merlin-55 - std wing - single - +9/+18? - 6450 lbs (6130 lbs) Spitfire 9c Merlin-61 - std wing - single - +12/+15 - 7450 lbs Spitfire LF 9c Merlin-66 - clip wing - single - +12/+18 - 7450 lbs Spitfire 14c Griffon-61 - std wing - single - 2600/2750 at +9/+18 - 8488 lbs (8400 lbs) Seafire L 2c Merlin-32 - std wing - fishtails - +12/+18 - 6995 lbs (6645 lbs) Are you sure the Spitfire Vc was ever equipped with a Merlin 55? I have only found the (cropped) Merlin 55M on the Seafire III. Spitfireperformance.com has a data set for a cropped Merlin 50M with +18 lbs/sqin. Should this one be used? If possible, I'd like to have the above conditions approved by someone in charge of flight models before doing any testing. I'd also like to have an officialy approved Clmax figure. I'd suggest 1.22 as the figure that the pilot can actually fly, as suggested by US tests, but I'll use whatever figure is officially approved. Regards, Henning (HoHun)
Hi again, Oh, the figures in brackets are the values used for the speed tests quoted on spitfireperformance.com. Please ignore these for the moment. Regards, Henning (HoHun)
salut! i'm thinkin in collecting data, some of which can be used in sims however, i started this topic for fh spitfire flight mode. is that you who wrote m55 for 5c here? %) http://www.allaboutwarfare.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=1254&hl= does ImpStarDuece mistake? i will pas this request to -bw-
Hi Exec, >ah, what does mean "+9/+12"? That +9 lbs/sqin boost for 100% (climb power) and +12 lbs/sqin for WEP (combat power). In the case of the Spitfire XIV, these power settings also have different engine speeds, so I have additionally quoted the RPMs for each power setting. Oh, and it would be important to state whether the Spitfire Ia is supposed to have a pilot armour back plate, too. (Both the Spitfire Ia and the IIa are modelled for 100 octane fuel if we use the stated boosts. With 87 octane, they'd be less powerful, but that would be the pre-April 1940 status only. I guess we'll want the Battle of Britain variety of the Spitfires, and these have 100 octane Regards, Henning (HoHun)
Hi again, I read some more and found that the Spitfire I and II have rpms reduced at climb power: Spitfire 1a Merlin-3 - std wing - fishtails - 2850/3000 at +9/+12 - - 6050 lbs (no pilot back armour) Spitfire 2a Merlin-12 - std wing - fishtails - 2850/3000 at +9/+12 - 6172 lbs (with armour) Spitfire 5b Merlin-45 - std wing - fishtails +9/+12 - 6500 lbs Spitfire 5c Merlin-55 - std wing - single - +9/+18? - 6450 lbs (6130 lbs) Spitfire 9c Merlin-61 - std wing - single - +12/+15 - 7450 lbs Spitfire LF 9c Merlin-66 - clip wing - single - +12/+18 - 7450 lbs Spitfire 14c Griffon-61 - std wing - single - 2600/2750 at +9/+18 - 8488 lbs (8400 lbs) Seafire L 2c Merlin-32 - std wing - fishtails - +12/+18 - 6995 lbs (6645 lbs) (The Spitfire I test on spitfireperformance.com seems to affected by a strange engine problem, by the way.) Regards, Henning (HoHun)
Hi again, Another consideration: Which ailerons are to be used? I'd suggest: Spitfire 1a - fabric ailerons Spitfire 2a - fabric ailerons Spitfire 5b - fabric ailerons Spitfire 5c - metal ailerons (all others: metal ailerons) Regards, Henning (HoHun)
Hi Exec, >spitfire 14c griffon-61 due to early date Hm, I can only find data for the Spitfire XIV with Griffon 65. The only difference I can find is that the Griffon 65 has a reduction gear ratio of 0.45 compared to that of the Griffon 61 of 0.51, so it's not going to make much of a difference. I suggest using the Griffon 65 as I get the impression only a handful of Spitfire XIV were equipped with the Griffon 61. (Only one I know for certain, JF317. It's sister JF319 already had a Griffon 65.) Regards, Henning (HoHun)
Hi again, >I suggest using the Griffon 65 as I get the impression only a handful of Spitfire XIV were equipped with the Griffon 61. Found on spitfireperformance.com: "So the Griffon 61 was produced in small prototype batches and the production 65 series followed." (From an article from The Aeroplane, September 21, 1945.) Regards, Henning (HoHun)
badger witnesses that spits were made according to NII VVS data (sci-explo-institute) with: Cliftturn = 1.18 = Cliftallowed(=0.85*Cliftmax) Cliftmax = 1.38 but he broke the icq conversation before it ended. :-|
Hi Exec, >Cliftturn = 1.18 = Cliftallowed(=0.85*Cliftmax) Roger, I will calculate turn times with that Cl. Another question: Negative G carburetting. My suggestion (so far): Spitfire Ia - negative G cut-out Spitfire IIa - negative G cut-out Spitfire Vb - negative G cut-out Spitfire Vc - no cut-out From http://www.spitfireperformance.com/w3228.html >The only difference between a Merlin 45 and 50 is the fitting of a "negative g" carburettor and a fuel de-aerator on the latter engine, and these are unlikely to have a marked effect on performance. (So the Spitfire Vb with a Merlin 45 should cut out.) Regards, Henning (HoHun)
