Target:Korea

Discussion in 'Warbirds International' started by muzzl-, Jan 12, 2003.

  1. muzzl-

    muzzl- FH Beta Tester

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    Guys is anybody fly Target Korea or Target Rabaul?
    If yes,could you tell me please where can i get it?
    I cant wait for open beta anymore!!! :D
     
  2. By-Tor

    By-Tor Well-Known Member

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    Cant wait for open beta :kruto:
    The coolest new feature in future flight sims will be introduced in these new sims. That being, pilot modeling :@prayer:
    Thier is a pilot fatigue model being integrated into these two sims. Pull too many G's too often and your 'physical' ability to continue in such a fashion, will be impaired as your turn radius ( diminished 'strength' due to fatigue) will increase. No more 'yankin and crankin' on the stick to induce warps etc (you know who you are) :dura:

    Guess Ill have to fly Axis tho, as it will be the Allies playing the boring BnZ running routine. :D I'll be doing the WW2 Target Rabaul :cheers:

    It just occured to me as funny that the veteran 109/190 drivers will now be flying Corsairs, while we 'old' Red dogfighters will be flying Japanese. :p
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2003
  3. biles

    biles Well-Known Member

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    Don't read this

    "...No more 'yankin and crankin' on the stick to induce warps etc (you know who you are)...."

    I think the Falcon series of games does that. I never black out so I will have to go back and check to see if a pilot gets massive hemmorrhages in his legs, detached retinas and then dies. Hehehehe.

    I am sure I had an Air Combat Flight Sim that penalized a gamer the same way...

    Falcon4?
    Aces Of The Pacific????
    Nah prolly not, they were a decent sims. Maybe it was one of the 100 or so SHITTY ones I have paid for, else I would be able to remember....

    Anyway, that sounds great!

    One thing they will never be able to model is the confusion a pilot feels when he comes out of the blackout. I have never actually BEEN in a blackout, I have just pretended. Hehe. But I have heard pilots wake up from a blackout dis-oriented.
     
  4. Rapier

    Rapier Guest

    No there is no confusion!

    @ Biles
    There is no "confusion" after recovery from a "grayout" or "blackout" and no need to "wake up".
    I have pulled 11g in a gunnery sortie and, despite wearing an anti-g-suit, was in a blackout of course. As your vision comes back, one glance at your instrumants tells you where you are in what attitude. There is no confusion, there just can`t be. :confused:

    BTW: I just wonder, where you got that kind of info from.

    Regards
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 12, 2003
  5. biles

    biles Well-Known Member

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    Re: No there is no confusion!

    I stand corrected! <S>
    I got that from television and some bad reading, I guess....

    The guy blacking out on the tv sure looked confused. I thought it was more like getting Kayoed. You are saying a pilot can orient himself immediately after recovering from a gee induced blackout?

    What is it like?

    I never came close, in a sailplane, hehe.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2003
  6. Zembla JG13

    Zembla JG13 FH Beta Tester

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    sry for the OT question but: what planes did you fly? Pulling 11G isn't something any plane can do (as you probably know a thousand times better than me ;))

    greetze, Zembla
     
  7. Rapier

    Rapier Guest

    Yeah long time ago!

    @ Zembla

    I was a F104 Starfighter jock, some time ago :).
    We had two g-meters installed in the aircraft: one showed cockpit gs in front of the pilot (which could be reset by the pilot) and one was installed near the center of gravity (in the wheelwell, sealed, it showed cumulative gs pulled during the liftime of the aircraft).
    The maintanance needed those actual gs for airframe inspection purposes. As a matter of fact, with 11 gs that aircraft (in the weight and stores configuration I flew) was badly over-"g"ed and was looking like a washboard at the bottom of the fuselage. It was a total loss (unrepairable). It had to be given a special clearance for a ferry back to Germany from Portugal and I had to take it back myself, because I was the only one available with testpilot-qualification.

    "g" pulling is not so bad in RL, once you get used to it and your body fitness is able to cope with it. You strain your stomach and leg muscels a bit plus you carry an anti-g-suit to help you along. Remember acrobatic pilots even push negative gs.
    Those are far worse to cope with because no muscle tension can prevent the blood from overflooding your eyes and brain.

    Here in WB the interaction shown is badly overmodelled. The redouts and blackouts don´t last that long in RL as here in WB.

    Regards
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 12, 2003
  8. Zembla JG13

    Zembla JG13 FH Beta Tester

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    Well in WB they can be very very very confusing... ;)

    About your Starfighter story... I'm sorry for being so sceptical, but I'm wondering what were you doing that forced (or made you) pull a +11G turn...? I thought the Starfighter was one of those crates that had diffulties pulling something more than +8G without ripping off a wing or 2... The Starfighters wings were as sharp as razor blades in order to achieve the supersonic abilities it was designed for... am I right? You must've flown quite alot, and 've logged quite some hours in very diverse plane types in order to get that "test pilot qualification" ...
    I'm sorry but this story just puzzles me, it's not that I don't believe you, but it's more or something I think there's some exageration in the number...

    greetze, Zembla
     
  9. Rapier

    Rapier Guest

    @ Zembla

    Those 11 gs were caused by a sudden jerk at the stick, trying to avoid ricochets during a 500kts strafing run at the air to ground range (10° dive angle, 100 ft min shooting range, 100ft min alt was the procedure). I just felt of getting to close. That did not even cause any blackout nor greyout, because the blood is to inert to react that quickly.

    Normally one pulled 4-5 gs during gunnery sorties or when pulling up into a loop or immelmann. Those were sustained gs, lasting a few seconds, and if you pulled them too quickly a greyout was the result, never a blackout, you try to avoid that. The aircraft (F104G) limitation was 7.33 gs (if I remember correctly) in "clean" configuration (no external stores) and a limited amount of internal fuel.

    Yes I did quite some flying in my military career, but lets not get that too much into the open here. I have found fellow pilots at WB, which do a lot better flying and shooting, than I will ever learn.

    Regards

    I just had to correct that bad typing mistake, I wrote
    Of course it was 1000 ft and not 100 ft.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 12, 2003
  10. -fla--

    -fla-- Well-Known Member

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    How is the experience, it's like your vision area starts to dimish until you can see only a very small area just in front of you ? (that area would go even smaller until you get nothing ?)
     
  11. -nicae-

    -nicae- Well-Known Member

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    in AH blackouts, when you recover you are looking at your gauges, and slowly recover visibility and original head position.
     
  12. HoHun

    HoHun FH Beta Tester

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    Hi Rapier,

    >Those 11 gs were caused by a sudden jerk at the stick, trying to avoid ricochets during a 500kts strafing run at the air to ground range (10° dive angle, 100 ft min shooting range, 100ft min alt was the procedure).

    I've heard about pilots shooting themselves down on the range!

    Did the airframe make any sound when it was distorted? (I'm asking because flight simulators love to squeak when something like that happens :)

    And with regard to the disorientation: There reportedly is a lot of that when you have suffered from GLOC (G-induced loss of consciousness), including loss of motoric control. Of course, GLOC could kill you, so you'd always try to avoid it!

    In WW2 however the phenomenon wasn't properly understood yet, there were no G suits until very late in the war (and then only with the US forces I believe), and the pilots had no anti-G-training at all.

    Some fighters had good (flat) seating positions like the F-16 today (for example Me 109 and Fw 190), but that was coincidental as the reason for these position had been to keep the aircraft compact and streamlined. The RAF fighters were worse, and they tried to compensate for that by adding "steps" on the rudder bar for use in combat situations. (Using these steps, the pilot's legs and knees were higher up, decreasing the effect of Gs on his body.)

    So in short, in WW2 they didn't even knew the obvious :)

    Regards,

    Henning (HoHun)
     
  13. Zembla JG13

    Zembla JG13 FH Beta Tester

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    What exactly do you mean by flat, if you mean it's seating is flat then I must correct you; like this:

    The F-16 doesn't have a flat seat, that's one of the main characteristics of the F-16, it decreases the effects of G's on the body to a certain degree ... The seat is actually tilted backwards.

    This comes directly from Jane's:
    "To enable the pilot to sustain high G forces, and for pilot comfort, the seat is inclined 30° aft and the heel line is raised."

    But when you mean horizontally tilted backwards... we're talking about space craft ;) The pilots LAY in their F-16's they don't sit...

    greetze, Zembla
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2003
  14. illo

    illo FH Beta Tester

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    Thats exactly what ho-hun was meaning IIRC.
     
  15. Zembla JG13

    Zembla JG13 FH Beta Tester

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    Hmm, yeh I replied to the post before completely reading it, but I was too lazy to completely correct it etc...

    greetze, Zembla
     
  16. -nicae-

    -nicae- Well-Known Member

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    LOL! true! i'd like to know that too :)
     
  17. biles

    biles Well-Known Member

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    Don't read this

    Wow. Hearing a f104 squeak would make a guy crap himself, eh? Not much wing to warp!

    I am totally amazed that many air forces took that little plane and used it in multi-role. Just amazing. I mean, it was a interecpter, right?
    And look at those tiny tiny wings.

    Training training and more training:

    S! to Luftwaffe and Hellenic Airforce and Spanish and RCAF. Must have some pretty snazzy fliers!

    I am awed.
     
  18. Zembla JG13

    Zembla JG13 FH Beta Tester

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    Italy and Turkey still operate the Starfighter... Belgium and Holland both replaced the Starfighters with the Fighting Falcon...

    hats off to those Italians and Turks ;)

    greetze, Zembla
     
  19. beryl

    beryl Well-Known Member

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    in Saturday was last glight of polish Mig-21 on "my" airfield. Now i'm waiting to 2007 for F-16 ;)