Why Americans don't like jazz

Discussion in 'Warbirds International' started by Fucketeer, Mar 6, 2007.

  1. rgreat

    rgreat FH Developer

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    OK, loaded another part of 'live' TV perfomance.
    Little rushed though... he got too little time.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WA0w2_gGGqQ

    Here also album version of his "Весна" (Spring) song.
    http://barans.narod.ru/tmp/Vesna.mp3

    He is pretty unknown even in russia... Doubt you can find alot of his works.
    He is rarely recorded, as he prefer to sing live on small stages / private concerts. :(
    I know only one album (and he is not solo :(): Nigredo.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2007
  2. Fucketeer

    Fucketeer Banned

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    That's okay, but then again, I don't want to understand the lyrics to enjoy the music.
     
  3. biles

    biles Well-Known Member

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    My baba had many many recordings like these.
    I haven't heard of this guy, but he sounds so typical. And I don't mean that as bad.
    Some other guy said he doesn't have to listen to lyrics, neither do I. It is nice when I can, but always, it isn't always nessesary.
    And the guy's stuff made me think of My Baba.

    [sometimes that fat happy old lady would dance around her house while she playedmusic, I never thought she looked stupid. One day, my grandfather, a Scottsman made a disparaging comment about her music and dance and I caught myself about to punch him, having momentarily gone into "You better not say ANYTHING about my baba!" mode. Just for one second my grandfather needed a good punch in the head. hehe. I sure miss my Baba :rose: ]
     
  4. bizerk

    bizerk Well-Known Member

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  5. grobar

    grobar Well-Known Member

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    very nice thread fuck! (cant give reputation either) :fly2:


    for a change, I will not generalise and keep quiet, this time! ;)
    just stick to music

    i felt the urge though. i'll just mention that most of the people in UK who have heard some of my collection asked "uh. do you really enjoy listening to this???". :D on the other hand, people from Balkans, Turkey, Russia, Iran have been much more appreciative, even exulted, when they discover whats on my 120GB usb! (they also often helped me to expand it!) I would think what unites those latter people I met, is the widespread non-commercial musicality in their cultures (+the mandatory western pop). Growing up in more diverse musical environment probably leads to developing more cosmopolitan taste.


    biles, i found Ravi Shankar bit too commercial by the way. :) maybe just because he got too famous.


    +++++


    my housemate has a huge collection of jazz. i put him some bosnian jazz (Boian Zulfikarpashitch) - nice but pretty usual (just in few compositios he intertwines a very subtle bit of bosnian melody) - he was impressed so good quality music exists in Balkans. Maybe he thinks now we are civilized people. :rolleyes:

    Then I decided to risk and put on an Arab artist I adore - Rabih Abou-Khalil
    He said "sorry, Nikola, what is this? is this music?". Well, yeah, it is jazz. Somewhat. But it is more than that!

    So everybody carries around his luggage and it is rare to be totally open-minded. I, for example, dont like pop&rock, indie or whatever - I might like only the first 1 second when a single instrument is introducing, after that it becomes too dirty for me. also all these songs sound the same to my ear - most of these singers seem to be churning out tons of albums by fitting a number of ready templates already invented by whoever established that particular style. not much creative for me. musically. i dont listen to their text even though i know english - i guess i dont expect it to be worth it, with millions of songs being written per year for income. surely,if they came up with moving poetry they wouldnt waste it on pop flicks?


    some of it is good for shaking your bones in a disco though


    i remember i once heard Marilyn Manson and I liked him. his music was unorthodox, and his lyrics were interesting.


    so yeah, i carry my luggage of restraints too


    of course in music you can easily make a novel work, but to make it listenable, or worse - awesome - is another matter! yet there are people like Arto Tundjboiadjiian, Wim Mertens or Iva Bittova so it is possible!
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2007
  6. Mcloud

    Mcloud Well-Known Member

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    There are certainly some jazz musicians who are very talented (ie Oscar Peterson). And, yes, you have to be able to think outside the box to be able to really appreciate some jazz. The problem with jazz is that to a lot of people it is aimless. Ever been to a jazz club? You sit there with people who think their tastes are more refined and sophisticated than anybody else, and they are kinda like yuppie beatniks, and they listen to music like jazz that doesn't seem to have:

    1: Any key (ie. "hey fellas, lets play something in G minor!")
    2: Any musical structure
    3: Any real musical beginning, end, or direction.

    With jazz what you do get is:

    Musicians that just play a flurry of notes in any key because they can't think of anything to say musically. They will play like this for hours while people in the front row will nod in agreement and smile at all the shit they are hearing and pretending that they like it and pretend that its good.

    Yeah there are jazz musicians that can play but I'm telling you that you get guys that are playing stuff that is OUT OF KEY.

    Of course, they don't think it's out of key, because it's jazz, and in jazz there are no rules per se, and so it can't be criticized, maybe another reason why some musicians play jazz? Fear of criticism?

    Jazz bassists are the worst. Wanna meet a hurtin unit? Hang out with a jazz bassist. All they do is play 8th notes for 4 hours straight. No key, no anything at all, just 8th notes all over the fretboard, You could stop them at any point in the evening and ask them what key or even what mode (ie mixolydian) they are playing in and they probably won't know or even care. Then at the end of the night they put their stuff away, pack up and leave, people think its amazing. Those guys are brain dead.

    Most of the time jazz players like to improvise, that is to say they will get a drummer, a bassist and a piano player, and "Jam". You are more than welcome to pay money to see them "Jam".

    Jam is code languange for "let's fuck around cuz we are bored, maybe we will stumble on something that has some musical substance"

    Here's a great little jazz number. click here for a tune The guy who wrote it was good. The people who play it are good. You say to yourself "I could play that" "I could play drums like that".

    Umm, that guy is excellent. His meter is fuckin awesome. Tempo is right on as well. Now this is nicely fuckin done. If you could play like that, drums or piano, you wouldn't be reading this right now.

    It's a great little number to listen to on your car stereo on a really hot sweltering day. You can be stuck in traffic due to construction, and when you finally get up to the point in traffic that has all the construction workers you roll down the window and say:

    "I don't know why the fuck you guys are always working on the roads I need to drive on, but do me a favor and do it fuckin right!!!" :cheers:

    If I ever invented a comic strip called "The adventures of Megacock in the land of Zorgon" this would be the soundtrack.

    You can do anything with this tune playing from:
    1. getting drunk in a bar.
    2. get a blowjob from a somewhat untalented, unenthusisatic 30 something.
    3. standing in line to get your driver's license renewed.
    4. contemplating increasing your prices.
    5. ask for a drink the bartenders never made before.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2007
  7. Fucketeer

    Fucketeer Banned

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    [​IMG]

    Best post ever!

    How true.
     
  8. gandhi

    gandhi Well-Known Member

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    another good tune

    also good fur:

    1, gettin drunk in bar
    2, gettin a BJ
    3, waitin in line
    4, watchin airplanes take off at airport in germany
    5, eatin eis cream
    6, almost anythin else

    but its not reely jazz

    mor liek 'lounge'

    btw i know not waht this gerhard norholz 'otto sieben' guy looks liek

    but for som reason i think he look liek this:

    [​IMG]
     
  9. Mcloud

    Mcloud Well-Known Member

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    When I hear Stevie Ray Vaughn I hear Hendrix. When I hear this Otto Sieben guy playing this curly Shirley tune I think Herb Alpert and the Tijuana Brass BIG TIME. Oh man that's who I thought it was all along. It's got those 60's drawbars organ sounds Lawrence Welk era stuff. Quite authentic, not junk, but a total ripoff. It's like Beatles vs. the Monkeys, one's an imposter I'm afraid.

    Anyway I've been of the mind that there is no such thing as a talent scout anymore. Know why? Cuz there's hardly any talent out there.

    Really. Back in the 60's you had people that learned how to sing in churches. You had people that knew how to play the piano, the guitar. There were no computers to fuck around with. Studios were very basic, microphones and big old tapes. You have to have your shit together before you go into a studio. No overdubs, 3 or 4 takes live. That's it.

    You had record companies that would have talent scouts that would go out to the happening bars, clubs. In England you had the Cavern club. Beatles started a little somthing in there. Shortly after you had the Who in the same joint. Down the street you had Groups like Yes and Genesis starting out in the late 60's and early 70's. Yeah these guys really all knew each other.
    On this side of the Atlantic you had the whole 50's rock and roll thing with Chuck Berry, Elvis, Little Richard, you know that story. They started out singing in front of, and with, people. No flashy lights, no mixing boards.

    You had Motown stuff. The Supremes could sing, and a whole shitload of people that in many cases could actually sing and play a fuckin song.

    Well in the seventies you had Led Zeppelin, Yeah they could play. A bit of a screamer Robert Plant but they were good.

    You had record companies that would give their legs to find the next Pink Floyd before anyone else did. They tried to find these bands. I think it was in the eighties that things went from being cozy to corporate and you had cocksuckers take the reins of the music industry. Trashy bands on Television all through the 80's hair bands, metal bands. Music was becoming more about rock videos and MTV and looks than music.

    So forget about sending talent scouts out there to find the next Jimmy Page, FUCK IT. People are stupid. We will tell them what is good and pump it full of money and they will believe it cuz we supply them with the cultural icons they need.

    Enter Madonna.

    Can Madonna play a guitar? piano? Ever played a bar?

    No, but she got a cab ride to times square and sucked off about 20 A+R men.

    That's how you go from being a nobody that has never done a damn thing, to someone on TV and then someone playing a stadium. She certainly works hard, and has talent. But it is also true that she was picked from a hat.

    Jessica Simpson. Same story, even less talent with Jessica than with Madonna, but she had a lot of record company money pumped into her. She is a product. An idol, role model, fashion model, singer actress.

    YEAH RIGHT.

    Most pathetic thing I have ever seen on stage: Jimmy Page with this Fred Durst guy from Limp Bizkit doing an old Zeppelin song on some MTV music awards thing. If anyone can find a clip of this on the net PLEASE post it. It is really BAD. but the 20 something's in the audience think "OH YEAH THERE'S MY MAN FRED DURST WITH SOME OLD GEEZER, WHAT'S HIS NAME? JIMMY SAGE? FUCK THAT GUY, WHAT'S HE DOING THERE WITH FRED?" You could see actual PAIN on Jimmys face. It was a real eye opener. You have an older generation of musician, a guy like Jimmy Page, together with someone that truly is fuckin talentless, Fred Durst. Like WHAT IS THE FUCKIN PROBLEM? WHERE IS TODAY'S TALENT?

    It used to be the case that when you got a record deal with CBS, RCA, Warner Brothers, Atlantic. You had it made. There was no way that any record company would sign you up without you having major money making talent. The fact you got the record deal and 5,000 other bands didn't, said it all.

    Nowadays when a record company needs a singer they go to a modelling agency and find a girl with a certain look that has "likes to sing" under the hobbies section of her profile. When they need a group they get a bunch of people together and sell you the Spice girls. When you get bored of that they'll sell you the pussycat dolls. Same thing.

    When people really reject what they are being sold and actually stop spending their money on it, record companies will be forced to resort to other strategies to make money. I think the problem is that people don't recognize talent anymore. They truly don't know what it is, so they buy what they think is good.

    People think I'm negative, I can't help it. Jessica Simpson isn't very good, Neither is ICE-T. I wouldn't give them a damn cent. They're household names. Think about it. That's fucked.
     
  10. grobar

    grobar Well-Known Member

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    wish this was about music only

    its your lifes
     
  11. grobar

    grobar Well-Known Member

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    i happily have a very vague notion of most of the names in your post!
    wouldnt have any if not for some recent housemates who put on the music channel sometimes.

    i dont get my music from records companies. same about films - if its got an oscar or made in los angelis, the less likely i will look at it.

    i get it from emule, there is enough bonkers out there sharing stuff you dont find in the average shop. bonus! - you get it for free! plenty of nostalgia sites - you just have to know the languages or be good guesser. immigrant communities cling onto the music live in their mother countries.

    or from people selling it on the curb - like this guy for example. people drive to italy for a sun-dried tomato dinner? buy your music on the spot for added value!

    wish it was only music

    fortunately there is still places one can retreat to and be real. "poor" places by necessity.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2007