Expect what? I just made the invitation to discussion for anyone who has something to say. If you prefer to move myself to "anti-polish" - I bless you , but just imagine you can be a little bit wrong You have nothing to say indicated topic related? Oh, OK, I understand and respect you desist. But just do not move to personality, please P.S. (yeah, I understand Polish language well, also know many FH members understand Russian as well )
Simply we see no point in taking part in this "discussion" (which is plain anti-Polish flaming contest dominated by stupid hate and nationalism). Also we don't regard most of the posters there as partners for any discussion. Use arguments instead of dumb slogans from communism era and imagined faults and we may try to talk with you.
Could you be so kind and show me, where I have used dumb slogans in my post? The indication of mine "anti-Polish flaming contest" would be also highly appreciated. You have used enough expression to demonstrate your contempt to myself (as potential partner for discussion), so, that should be explained. I definitely need not you, Sir High Advantage, talk to me. There is the link in indicated thread first post. Followed by link - there is one more interpretation of modern history. I have my personal oppinion regarding that interpretation and just was interested about polish pilots opinion regarding that. Do you feel the difference, Sir? If you have no opinion, or do not say something - the good behaviour would be definitely say nothing instead or demonstrate your ignorance or disrespect.
Ďŕř, ŕâîňőóé Ďîëó÷čňĺ, ňęńęçŕňü, ďî ěîçăŕě. Çŕčěĺé ďđĺäńňŕâëĺíčĺ îá óđîâíĺ äčńęóéńčč. Ěóőčí - ďđîďŕăŕíäčńň, č íĺ čç őóäřčő, íî îí (őîňü č ďîë˙ęîíĺíŕâčńňíčę čçâĺńňíűé) - îäčí ňŕęîé, ŕ íŕ ďîđňčâíóţ ńňîđíîó đŕáîĺţň ďđîôĺńńčîíŕëű. Âűńîęîîďëŕ÷čâŕĺěűĺ (ń) Ęŕö. Ďî÷čňŕé Ęŕňűíńęčé äĺňĺęňčâ. Îňáđŕńűâŕě 90% áđĺäíč ďđî "ăíčëóţ ďîë˙öęóţ áóđćóŕçčţ" č ňî ÷ňî "âńĺîíčâđŕăč", ďîëó÷ŕĺě ńóőîé îńňŕňîę, čç ęîňîđîăî âűâîä: Ăĺááĺëüń - đóëčň, çäđŕâűé ńěűńĺë - ńîń¸ň, "ýňî č ĺńňü - äčŕëĺęňčęŕ", ňüôó, äĺěîęđŕňč˙. Íŕě ó÷čňüń˙ č ó÷čňüń˙ ĺů¸, ęŕę äî Ěŕăŕäŕíŕ âďđčń˙äęó íŕě äî Ďŕë ¨çűôîâč÷ŕ. Áóäó ďčńŕňü ńţäŕ ďî-đóńńęč ëčáî ńďü˙íó ęŕę ńĺé÷ŕń, ëčáî ďî ďŕäîíęŕôôńęč, çŕäîëáŕëč đîáîňŕěč-ďĺđĺâîä÷čęŕěč, ňđĺáóţ ńîáëţäĺíč˙ ďđŕâŕ íŕ íŕňńűîíŕëüíóţ ëčíăâčńňč÷íóţ ďđčâŕňíîńňü
Not so simple, comrade. The author of an article that was a start of the thread is a propagandist. He simply plays as low as Polish propaganda speaking about "Soviet occupation". Mukhin is a well-known Polish-hater, but he wrote a good essay on Katyn, the only source of non-nazi version of a tragedy. Reading him you simply should skip his lame rhethorics about "rotten Polish bourgeous regime" and try to fish for facts. If you didn't know - it's the only way to deal with propaganda revelations and "what every itelligent person knows". Frankly speaking - I didn't expect it from Pavel. But he's a well-known provocator here Please do me a favour and enlighten me on this subject. I think that we grew up enough from Warsaw and then Koeningsberg to Kamchatka, now we only shrink. Edit: Mukhin is not in any way an official propagandist. He is a "dissident" in our times of a victory of Democracy over common sence. P.S.: I don't like a tendency to make Polish people a kind of "Jews of modern times". You guys have too many things to be proud of to retreat to a position of "always-supressed-always-betrayed" orphan nation. Sorry. Noone remebers how you defeated Swedes in XVII century, but everyone remembers how you were "divided between Stalin and Hitler". Noone remembers how you invaded Soviet Russia in 1920, but everyone remembers a "miracle on Vistula". Everyone remembers "Soviet occupation" but noone remembers that you gained more land after WWII then any other country... Everyone remembers Polish RAF squads, but noone remembers 80000+ Vojsko Polsko soldiers who died during the Berlin Operation... I see some kind of cognitive dissonance. It's a shame that instead of remembering our history we fall under so-called "civilized world" historical tradition. I mean both our nations. I can make a list of historical nonsence about Russia much longer then what I wrote above about Poland
Yeah. We shouldn't hate each other only because of mistakes from past. We are only controlled by our leaders, to feed their pathetic greed for power, land and money :/ Noone asked me and none of people I know about Iraq, but in poll most of Poles were supporting it. That's real propaganda and now people thinks that most things showed in TV is true. LIE repeated 1000 times becomes true and media gives trully power to goverment that uses it. Past and future are created by our concious or subconcious decissions (check 'What the Bleep do We know' scientific document movie for details about creating a possibilities of free choice. Good movie BTW ), so instead of hate about past we should think about peace in future. And they can't exists togehter. There is free choice between them. Ohh, today I write so strange things
Äűę Óćĺ čěĺţ. ß, ńîáńńíî, çŕ čőíčě ěíĺíčĺě ďđčřĺë ńţäŕ, ňčďŕ ďîńëóřŕňü ęňî ăđŕěîňíî îňáčňüń˙ ńóěĺĺň. Îäíŕęî íĺ ňŕ óćĺ ďîëüńęŕ˙ ęŕâŕëĺđč˙, íĺň Ďčĺňŕńŕ , âčřü ďîďđ˙ňŕëčńü ďî óăëŕě č íŕăđŕäčëč ěĺí˙ î÷ĺđĺäíîé ŕíňčďîëüńęîé ęđűńîé Äŕ č ő áű ń íčě. Íó ýňî äŕ, ěű ďîęŕ ÷ňî íĺ âďđčń˙äęó, ěű âńĺ áîëüřĺ ń íîńęŕ íîđîâčě Ŕ âîň ýňŕ ďđŕôäŕ! Ďŕňňĺđćčâŕţ íŕő Áîëüřŕ˙ ďîëîâčíŕ íĺ ňîęŕ ďî-đóńńęč ďîíčěŕĺň, íî ĺůĺ č îáěŕňĺđčňü ěîćĺň íĺíŕďđ˙ăŕ˙ńü, ŕ ęŕę čçâčëčíó íŕďđ˙÷ü, ňŕę îíč ňčďŕ âńĺ óíčâĺđńčňĺňîâ íĺ ęîí÷ŕëč P.S. Ďî-ďîëüńęč ďĺřčňĺ, ŕôňŕđű, ˙ ć ăîâîđţ, ˙ ďîíčěŕţ ďđĺęđŕńíî
I suppose in his version a brigade of 4000 Polish SS-officers attempted a sneaky attack on Moscow, but the glorious Red Army stopped them at Katyn Forest and crushed them in a heroic battle, eh?
Last reliable document made "on site" on Katyn' tragedy was a Burdenko's commission report made in 1944. Conclusion: nazis did it in 1941. Mukhin sums up all the nonsence of the Goebbels's "official Western" version. Poles were killed from German weapons, and only this fact is enough to ruin it. Other facts are that there was a young pioneer (Soviet boy-scout) camp there at 1940, etc. He also easily proves that so-called "documents" shown by Western side are obviously faked. Latest (spring 2005) Russian General Military Prosecutor office investigation showed no evidence of "Soviet atrocities". Their official report was polite enough not to make Polish side lose face, because Katyn' is a mainstay of anti-Soviet propaganda in some[/i] countries. As for me - I don't know who killed poor Poles in Smolensk. If it was Soviet side - I feel sorry. But so far I see only Goebbels's propaganda behind "Western" version backed up by fakes and complete absence of common sence. Again: "Everyone knows" is not an argument. Soviet/Russian history is covered by silly propaganda lies that usually can be shown in 10 minutes with the books I have on the shelf. Dr. Goebbels was a propaganda genius. Most of his inventions are still used by Western ("blue") side.
Sure, with the "right" sources to back up ones claims, it's possible to prove or disprove virtually anything. It's all just a matter of how gullible or deceptive you are. There's plenty of hard irrefutable evidence about the Katyn massacre available, but I understand that these "versions" do not fit into your own twisted view of history (and I know just HOW twisted it is from that other thread on WWII a couple of months ago).
http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/cold.war/episodes/01/spotlight/ http://www.cia.gov/csi/studies/winter99-00/art6.html http://www1.yadvashem.org/about_holocaust/chronology/1939-1941/1940/chronology_1940_4.html neonazi propaganda? skad oni takich biora???
Nice playwords, man. (Or I should name you "Sir" too?) Just with one seriuos mistake: Russian word "ăîńňĺďđččěńňâî" not in the least equal English word "welcome". Surprised?
I wonder where they get people who believe Goebbels's lie first pronounced in 1943. I said: I don't know. OTOH you take Goebbels's inventions for granted, as an ultimate truth. If you want to live in a "protestant ethics" black-and-white manichean world - it's up to you, I see different colours and try to find sources that contradict "official version" presented by "party and government". I did so in Soviet times, and it seems to me that it was easier to find opinions from "blue" side 20 years ago in books published in USSR then it is now in a so-called "free world". Sorry, I am on a shitty dialup now, only checked your CIA link, yeah, great source, and absolutely propaganda-free. Go find a book by Nikolai Yakovlev, called "CIA. Target: USSR" (TsRU protiv SSSR). First published in 1980 IIRC. There may be a Polish translation. Or did they burn all books like that in 1990? I am fed up by the "popular history" where Soviets are bloodthirsty monsters and Poles are martyrs and victims pathetically unable to do anything.
Jefim, I hope you understand that if you'll be in Moscow some day - I'll be honored to pour you a drink or two. I know that you understand Russian, and I want to say that most of the people who posted in that thread are fucking fed up by the media that tells us 24/7 that we, Russians, are monsters who only committed bloody crimes for the last 1000 years of our history since Russia was baptised in 988AD. I myself have met young people who seriously tried to tell me that USSR had better surrendered in 1941... This brainwashing is much more effective then what we had in Soviet times. Čěďĺđč˙ çëŕ. Áë˙. Čěďĺđč˙ î÷ĺíü çëŕ.
From that CIA link: Bloody bastards. Khatyn' got it's population executed completely. It's inhabitants were burnt alive in a wooden warehouse, only one little boy survived. It was worse then Song Mi slaughter... Fucking hypocrites. "They used Khatyn' only to cover up a Katyn' tragedy" my ass... BTW, Khatyn' was massacred by a Latvian SS unit. Now Latvia is a NATO member, just as Poland, and they openly praise SS "veterans" there. Look, bloody Soviet regime (tm) didn't simply hang the bastards, and now they are national heroes of NATO member state. Nazi heritage is an obvious driving force of NATO aggressors, now not only in rhethorics but in their actions too.
