Discussion in 'Warbirds Polish' started by badboy, Aug 10, 2005.
I can't read this, sry. (yeah - comment all u want)
I mean that Khatyn' (Hatyn'), not Katyn', was slaughtered by an SS unit formed from Latvians. Latvian SS "legion" was used mostly as "punishment" units, as hangmen, famous for their hatered to Jews, but being ruthless to any other nations. All this "national" SS units usually were kicked by Red Army or Wojsko Polsko (sorry my spelling may be incorrect) as kids, the only thing they could do was to slaughter unarmed civilians....
I understand some Polish, Badboy understands it much better. Feel free to comment, you are always welcome You guys write some weird Ukrainian dialect in Latin, so it's not a big problem for me to understand (I am half-Ukrainian and it helps me, no offences please )
And yes - I was "made in USSR", and I am proud of it Your sarcasm just hit the point.
Boroda, i have no friggin idea what Yakovlew or CIA base their claims on, (neither seems 100% reliable to me), but i remember a story my mother's childhood friend told to her whispering, about her father being killed in Katyn. She told this story to my mother once, and she was afraid to tell it aloud. This makes me think.
Another thing - why you guys all ignore Gorbachov's statement? This is too fresh to be falsified or denied.
nie wiesz? Gorbaczow to szpieg CIA
"Wayne's World" - the comedy
"Boroda's World" .... some kind of other reality???
You have another reality, "real reality", in your pocket and wanna show us what it is?
As I said - welcome, mate.
It's not "other" reality. It's my own reality, somehow secure from "instant opinions, just add water".
Living in USSR was different for different people, some, like you, believed everything they were fed by newspapers and TV, some, like me, tried to look for different facts from different sides and discovered some things that were... hmmm... unpleasant.
What, so are you saying the Politburo has basically set the whole Katyn thing up to look as if it was a Soviet war crime when in reality it was the Nazis who did it ... and apart from you and a few others, we all believed it?? Yeah, that's awesome propaganda work really. I mean if they were so good at denouncing their OWN country, just think what they could have done if they had tried to make the OTHER side look bad!
Let me clarify a few things. I don't hate Russia, and I don't think you Russians are savages or any of that .... well, not any more than rest of us. But as I see it it's pretty clear that in its history, Russia has had some "dark" ages, some as recent as half a century ago. Granted, other countries aren't so much different in that respect. But anyway, to try and deny Russian responsibility for the Katyn massacre ... that's really something. Imagine some German schmuck coming along claiming the whole holocaust business never happened, or someone else did it anyway. All hell would break lose and you'd probably be one of the first to come down on the guy like a ton of brick, and rightly so may I say. Now maybe you'll understand why I'm so disgusted by your trying to deny that these 4000 Poles were simply just MURDERED on Stalin's orders, which is clearly nothing but history revisionism of the lowest level.
Red Ant, I may say I studied the Katyn' story and dug into some sources.
First time it was announced in 1943 by nazi Ministry of propaganda. They set up an investigation commission that included "well known Europeans", and declared that in Katyn' Evil Communist Regime (tm) slaughtered innocent Poles (as if they were not doing the very same thing with other Poles at the same time).
When Red Army liberated that places, in 1944 there was another commission, led by academic Burdenko, famous Russian doctor. They included the same "well known Europeans" into that commission, and two of them confessed that they were forced to sign a German investigation report, nazis threatened thir families. Their names were mentioned at Kurt Reiss's book about Goebbels, I don't have it at hand now.
Gorby provided "documents" to Polish side in the 80s, but Gorby could easily say that communists crusified Christ. He was a traitor and a puppet, and still goddamn proud of it. The papers he provided were copies of the same well-known fakes made in 1950s. All I can say is that it's obvious, and doesn't support nazi version of Katyn' tragedy, but undermines it.
As I said before - I don't know who killed Polish officers in Katyn'. As a sane human being I am always in doubt and don't take anything for granted.
I am far from being Polish-hater. I am an internationalist (the word was "spoiled" after the Revolution - but I mean the original sence). As I said some time ago - my Grandfather graduated from Warsaw University in 1914, he didn't have a classic gymnasia education and couldn't go to the uni in metropolitan Russia. (I am not very old, Granfather was born in 1889, Father in 1926, me - in 1972). Another Grandfather once provided artillery support for Wojsko Polsko Kosciuszko division (he served in Guards Mortar Corps).
I am not in any way "angry" about Poland, I only want new "masters of the world" to take their hands dirty with the blood of millions off the history of my country.
We need to learn to live together, regardless to the fact that some forces benefit from our mutual hatered and try to increase it.
Do communism and internationalism cause schizophrenia... or is it the other way round?
you know what?
you cant build friendship on lie,
if you belive that was not russians who kill Poles in Katyn, well belive in fairy tales about great russian heroes and father of nation JV Stalin as nazis belive in Hitler
Hatyn' and Katyn' are different names, aren't they?
1) Hatyn' was a Belorussian village completely slaughtered and burned by SS punishers.
2) Katyn' is a place near Smolensk where nazis "discovered" bodies of Polish prisoners.
3) Hotin is a town in Bessarabia where in 1673 Polish troops defeated Turkish army.
Any more questions?
Still, You do believe that Polish officers in Katyn were slaughtered by German, which only proves my point.
Trafilem na eMule taki plik : II.WS.-.Wydarzenia-Ludzie-Tajemnice.#02.-.Katyn.[sam_son].(osloskop.net).rar
Jest to skan jakiejs gazety o wydarzeniach II WŚ. Duzo zdjec, obrazkow, schematow, ogolnie ciekawie zrobione. I nijak tresc ma sie do opowiadan naszego Ivanka Widac, ze dalej tkwia w tym co im "wujek" Józek naopowiadał.
no i wlasnie o to chodzi rosjanie bezkrytycznie podchodza do swoich zrodel wiedzy tak samo jak ty do swoich
It's funny that I meet absolutely the same approach as on American boards. Welcome to the Brave New World, guys.
Let me explain, I hope that you are not yet brainwashed to the final stage.
I repeat it once more: I don't know who murdered Poles in Katyn'. Can you see the difference? You guys have blind faith, you know it for sure as if you have been there, and provide CNN and CIA materials as "reliable source". What's next? "As seen on Ophra's"? Turn on your brain, please. There are mighty powers who want everyone believe that all the crimes of XX century are because of Russians. And you are the main "target group" for this brainwashing. Sorry. As a sae human being - I have a right to doubt. I don't take anything for granted.
An interesting note: Wikipedia is a flagship of revisionism in our times. Look at articles as "Berlin Airlift" - there is not a single word to explain real reasons for siege of West Berlin. Who cares? Everyone knows that Evil Commies always want to starve somebody.
Separate names with a comma.