Everyone has heard the furore by now I assume regarding the publication of some caricatures of the prophet Muhammad by European newspapers. Was it blatant media sensationalism or was their point valid? (the point in question being that Muslim countries have to accept that as Western democracies, we have freedom of our press (allegedly) and can blaspheme any religious idols). Im not religious at all, but I respect people who are and respect their opinions. Just because you have a right to do something does not mean that you should just go ahead and do, irrespective of other people's feelings. IMO it would have been more appropriate for them to say, basically, that yes they can do it, they have the freedom to do it, but out of respect for Islam they wont do it. Sir Ian Blair (Met police chief) was speaking recently regarding the murders of 2 young girls in Soham last year. You might have heard of it, as it received extensive press coverage over here. Maybe not. The point is, he was speaking recently and he raised what I thought was probably the one and only valid point he has ever raised. If it had been 2 black kids who had been murdered in such a way, the media coverage of their deaths would have been significantly less than that of the 2 young white girls who were murdered. And I tend to agree with that. His conclusion to this was that the media itself is inherently racist (an accusation once levelled by the media against the Met police, ironically). Could this 'blashpeming' of Muhammad be another example of inherent racism within Western media?
Hmm. I see plenty of jokes about Christianity etc. The way I see it: there are complaints from both the extreme islamists and the radical christians. So we aren't be discriminate. I like it. BTW, most moderate muslems took the opportunity to try and set 'mselves apart from the more radical muslems. What is your religion worth if you aren't confident enough in it to allow people to criticise/joke about it? <Z>
No, they are definitely not discriminating. But it is a symptom of modern Western culture that religion no longer plays a significant part in most of our lives, and this has (imo) resulted in a loss of respect for our own religious idols. The lord's name is taken in vain every day by alot of people. But Islamists are not the same. They respect their religion very highly, something that is demanded by the Quran. There are alot of followers of Islam in the countries where these cartoons were run. Western society is very aware of this fact. So, to treat a figure they hold in such high regard, with such contempt, is completely disrespectful imo. I would go so far as to say this is like us trying to impose our values upon them. Just cos we dont mind it happening, doesnt mean they should follow the same line. We knew they wouldnt, and we should be respectful of that fact.
No. Perhaps it was in bad taste, but the very fact that Europe is going through such public soul searching over it all shows that there is, overall, a fairly healthy tolerance of religious differences in the West. And the question invites comparisons. Well, let's pick Saudi Arabia as an example.
Europeans perhaps, but not the media involved. In fact, France Soir reprinted all of the photos again. Dont you believe that is just a little provocative? Regarding the comparison, is this in relation to the intolerance of Islam to other religions/cultures? Because I would agree that there is certainly a degree of intolerance among Middle Eastern countries for Western culture.
I think in this case Muslims are getting profit of the victimism they show sometimes. Damn, it's just a joke, they shouldn't make such a scandal out of it, or the Pope should have sued every newspaper in the world
This is kinda the point I was making. It is now so prevalent in European culture to make a joke out of anything and everything, that absolutely nothing is sacred anymore. Im not religious at all (as you know ) but I honestly believe this, amongst other things (capitalism, break up of families, etc) is responsible for the general lack of respect in Western culture. Money is our God now, and we can blaspheme that all we want cos it aint gonna take offence.
You're right, but i didn't find those caricatures so disrespectful. I have to check them later though
One had Muhammad with a turban bomb, complete with fuse, etc. Very bad taste and is more a slant on the whole of Islam than against Muhammad himself.
Everybody knows karikature is only for laughs, nothing serious, so imho personaly I don't se anything wrong or bad with it. To hell Papa from Vatikan should sue almost all newspapers all around the globe then. There are other RL serious things they should be concerned for.
I agree, there is more things they should be concerned with. But it is not for us to force that upon them. Whilst they hold the beliefs that they hold, we should respect them (their beliefs).
Did it not occur to you that you are forcing your tolerance upon them? You are not forcing them to be tolerant, but you are making them live in a society in which their neighbors are tolerant. As strange as it may sound, they might not want their neighbors to be tolerant. They may want their neighbors to be as intolerant as they are. After all, that would be the case if there were a pan-Islamic caliphate, the system proposed by many Islamic extremists. There is no "fairness," either. If society were truly fair, it would place an equal emphasis on inequity. It is unfair to favor fairness over everything else.
Danish/Swedish ARLA (dairy company) had about 40% of market in "arabia", cant recall if it was 1 counrty or the region. They will close their plant (800 ppl) in arabia (also, dont recall where it is) because of the unwillingness to buy cheese and milk from them. That must lash back to the arabians, because I strongly doubt that 800 guys, all called Svend and Orvar were making the cheese there... The guy who reprinted in France Soir has been kicked out of the office, btw. To be really nasty about this: We have to allow them to migrate here and use their stuff (halal slughter, kebab, wearing turban as busdriver and what not) but if we (In our own country) do something they don't like, they are free to call out a fatwa. On the entire country (countries) that has offended them. From my pov, that is not totally acceptable. If I get angry at some dude with a towel for a hat, I bloody well won't send my entire family over to his embassy and blow it up, will I. Instead I might hire biles to knock his kneecaps off. That's civilised, that is! Get even with the offender, not the offenders family, county, country, continent... To be harsh, I put my life on the line driving to work now, since the fatwa is called out also for (to?) Sweden. ... get a grip FFS
The whole post, and this sentence in particular is beyond comprehension. How can you force a neutral emotion on to anything? It is neutral - no negative or positive effect. You believe only extremists are angered by this? You couldnt be further from the truth. Everything I have posted in this thread has been in respect of the opinion of the majority of the people who follow Islam. And I can assure you that most Islamists do not seek a pan-Islamic caliphate.
