OT: Do you like drawing?

wait, it went from posting drawings, to THIS??

 

yes, and this is only the third page, who knows what will follow?

<Z>

 

Big wtg Zembla for expresing your self here about math topic.
But... I must not agree with statement that Achiles catches tortoise . Once when you or anybody here give solid prove that your result 11.11111m... represent finite number I am willing to say Zeno was wrong and Achiles can win the race!
Some more words about Eleatics. Zeno, their leading spokesman, was master of that perplexing device, the paradox - proposition which, through valid logically, flies in the face of common sense. Zeno was facinated by the idea of infinity. He felt that science could not grapple with reality unless it took into account the ways infinity seems to appear everywhere in nature. So he posed that paradox about "how is possible for a moving point to pass through an infinite number of positions in a finite time?".
In the fleet-footed Achilles runs a race with a turtle and a turtle is given as much as a foot's head start, how can Achilles ever catch up? When Achiles has gone a foot, the turtle has also trudged ahead by, say, a tenth of a foot. And when Achiles has covered the tenth, the tortoise is still some farther distance on its way.
Now anyone knows that Achiles can win that race, but how does anyone prove it by logical steps that do not need an endles math argumentations of proving?

@ -afi--
Any Artistical drawing, blue print, medical image.... or so...
you can represent on a number of mathematical expresions such as (eg.) points by x and y axis on this monitor screen where you are loking on any of drawings posted on this forum .
<s>
ron

 

You can, by using limits

eventually it's a limit, if you see it as a curve it will be even more clear, and in the point of that limit (which is a value) you will find your answer...

yet again you already knew this

what kind of studies did/do you follow actually?

100/9 [11.111111111...]... that is not an infinite number, it's a rational number... AFAIK




<Z>

 

I feel somewhat offended...

@ronin

You rule man...

 

NO PORN DRAWING ALLOWED HERE PLEASE RONIN!




ps: just kidding!

 

ronin, you did a very nice (and concise) account on the major achievements of hellenic mathematics. It is not arbitrary that the word "maths" in every european language is the same.


But you in fact stress exactly my point: the greeks became aware of infinity and continuum as phenomena but were never able to even phrase their questions properly in order to see an answer. Their thinking was restricted - they had only discrete numbers. That is why they could solve some problems graphically, but never - to quantify them.

BTW note that during the same age the Indian mathematitians didnt have those problems since they were working with algebraic equations (as in high school) for which it doesnt matter what number system you think in. But for the same reason they didnt ever tumble on the problems of infinity.

Archymedes devised some algorithms very close to inventing the limit, but due to his restricted thinking he never made the last step.

The fact is all of greek maths is studyed in school. The "higher" maths (ie the real stuff, you get in univ) is much newer.

Although Medieval times in Europe is considered age when all scientific advance was halted, it was catholic scholasts who did resolve the issues about infinity and infinitesimality and also invented several basic algorithms of higher maths (the precursor of epsilon-delta technique, proof of existense, proof of singularity, ...). They were applying those to God (also trying to make proper definition of "God") but gradually their language became more detached from the subject of investigation, making kindaf "logic" (thus the separation between maths and (meta)physics was born. )

This paved the way for the invention of calculus and the boom of Maths since XVI cent. when the greek, indian (through arabic al-
gebrah) and catholic knowledge hybridized.

Leibnitz and Newton just happened to be alive at that moment and prolly slightly smarter than the rest. Archymedes may have been much greater genius but the culture he lived in didnt give the chance.

Much later, after yet many more people kicked their heads in brick walls, it was found that neither Geometry nor Algebra (as in school) are branches of Mathematics. Nor Aristotelian logic is useful for anything (although the Logic depts in Philosophy faculties may keep thinking it is still up-to-date ).


BTW Im not saying greeks were stupid or their achievemnts are worthless - they were great breakthroughs in their own time, and they made possible the breakthroughs of later times. But Maths of today is totally different. You may try to open some book written by Bourbaki (who are also old stuff last 30-40 years)

 

Ok, tell me, what's the border, where is the line, when is it high maths, and when is it basic maths? I wonder, you know I'm still in high school, but I'll probably end up getting plenty more of maths later on, the one of the higher kind as you like to call it.

In fact at school I don't see much Greek math, not in the 3rd degree (we've got 3 degrees each consisting of 2 years, you have in the first degree the basic subdivision of latin / modern languages, the second degree subdivides into latin-maths, economics-maths, economics-modernlanguages, latin-modernlanguages, modernlanguages-maths, and then the third degree introduces another couple of subdivisions mainly influencing the load of maths you get, and you also can continue in scienticifical matters, I chose science-maths-8 (the 8 is the ammount of hours of maths) - hope I didn't bother y'all with this little guide to the Belgian (junior-)high school system)

...not in the 3rd degree, I see all the basical Greek mathematical breakthroughs in the 2nd degree, your choice of studies depends on how your knowledge will expand, and so it can be true that some people only see Greek maths at high school and don't get further than that, but as far as I know [you just confirmed it] limits, derivatives, matrices, integrals and plenty more aren't exactly of the regular kind, they are the introduction to the higher maths, right?

Ok, please, elaborate, this is the first thing I hear about that, and I'd very much like to know if what I learn is useful or not... Either way it's the base, the base you use to build your house of mathematical knowledge on, but the base is often the thing that is most applied in modern day society, all in all maths is great to prove theories etc, but the greatest use translates directly into the sciences that apply it, and those sciences are not really concerned much about the details of the higher mathematical theories AFAIK...

But of course, I can be wrong, (wonder why I keep saying that), but so can you be...

Anyhow please elaborate...

<Z>

 

modulor

hi ronin,

some non-porn drawing

le corbusier

 

@ ledada
Le Corbusier, most of his creations, and his modulor was one of my faworites. Also we must add the great one Ludwig Mies van der Rohe , also Walter Gropius and his amaizing Bauhaus schole in Waimar from 1929 if I can recall corectly. How did you know about Architecture and me led?
Oh, why do I feel like we know each other well

@ zembla
let it go bud.

@ grobar
The one, that does not pay respect to the past ( history ) does not get respect from the future.
(ronin)

@ -cbfs-
thx

 

The 'you rule' thingie was my 'thanks' for hearing all these names again, since I finished school... Damn I'm rusty in maths and stuff now !

PS : Geometry was my fetish at school, I kicked ass in that one

 

thx goes for thank you

And ahhh geometry one of my second loves... I had highest mark on uneversity from it including freehand and Perspective drawing as well.
<s>
ron

 

The paradox of Achilles and the tortoise had something to do wih the use of infinity as a variable (similar to X or Y in an equation), or "Aleph" I'm afraid I can't find the "aleph"-sign on my keyboard, so I'll have to write "Aleph" here.

Math involving infinity is quite new (20 yrs. or so?), but I've been told that using Zeno's paradox, you can create an equation that exists of something like X*(Aleph^1) on both sides of the "=", thus enabling us to "scratch" this variable away. The "infinity" is taken out of the equation, and we have a correct outcome.

I may be wrong in the details (I'm a chemist/physicist, not a mathematician) but the overall idea seems sound.

(I've found this on the internet. I might have made some mistakes translating, though!)

ARF ARF ARF!!!!! ME GOING CRAZY, UGHA UGHA!

 

hi ronin,

well, must have been some vibes which let me put the "modulor" in... nice to know, you also share interests in that "not only architectural" stuff.

i am strongly influenced by my father, who has listened to some lessons of van der rohe once and who interested me also in those radical designs and architectures.

 

the paradoxality of things kinda suppresses ppl ,but not like this :



Supra-substance of


Stocastic processes


The Predestrations of statisctoinal probabpilities as correlative functions :

Enthrophy as a growth to it's maxium value in the system , which values the thermodynamical proximities
relative on macrovolumed in polaritive micro spacuar entity as :Bolzman : ( k= 1,2805 . 10a-23 J /degree mol )

As this ,is as is in our system .., contains instabilities which prepresent their maximal volume.

Thus ,If the all of the cells chromosomes saved information in their shape as they are , in their formation are affected by the force of ne-gentrophyphical variable , it in a cybernetical "under-a-law" and also information-technological models dependencies acts as within operator *nabla* in internalfunctions (f(x)dx)




As a System theorethcially determinic-stocastic pulsemodulative integration of density ,demanding that Taylors vanishing criteria is considerd here in random variables


Discretivly ,with 'Poisson-spread' ,which come true in function as in question ,in it's modes possibility-vectors Game-theoretically in it's fiskoperationally models
hyper-geometrical possiblityn functions.

 

How about Quantum Phisics jacobe?
And infinity problems in Schroder's math related with that bransh of science.............

<s>
ron

 

I'm afraid of Schroder's equation.

 

FLA! ... RUN!!!

 

sry haupt - forgot about the eagle -

here it comes from my sq profile

 

@ronin

no relation of anything afaik