Ukraine

Discussion in 'Warbirds General Discussion' started by vasco, Feb 21, 2022.

  1. vasco

    vasco Well-Known Member

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    Those guys are already shitting their pants.
    I wonder where will they get new shells from.
    They can't even rtb now.
     
  2. rgreat

    rgreat FH Developer

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    You are not worthy of replying.
     
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  3. hugo baskervill

    hugo baskervill Well-Known Member

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    We in Europe dont understand these territory claims more than a century. So no wonder we are not responding to Russian claims. We thought Ukraine is a sovereign state.

    As for nuclear weaponry. As I said for now we see in Putin a threat and mainly a person who is not trusted and with who is not possible to negotiate. The weapons start to negotiate, including nuclear ones. We are not using them as a argument, but if Putin starts using them against Ukraine, there will be nuclear response.

    The problem with russian president is that your president concentrate too much power. The advantage (and a reason why NATO will never conduct attack operation against Russia) of democracy is in dividing the power among more or less 200 idiots with different opinions. But if the russian president will sleep badly there could be nuclear war.
     
  4. hugo baskervill

    hugo baskervill Well-Known Member

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    Well, I dont have any source to prove Russian advances are highly optimistic. But I think if I'm right the Russia will start to visibly lose in one week only (3 weeks at most). What is your estimation of conflict?

    I was in Transnistria, but i dont think they are advancing to Ukraine
     
  5. Archer

    Archer Administrator Staff Member

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    Try to ask them, then ask NATO. Then report to us, please :)
     
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  6. -frog-

    -frog- Well-Known Member

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    You were lucky enough that we were involved somewhere else ;)
    Just kidding.
    I think Czechoslovakia at that time was the sole democracy in the region (surrounded by monarchies and authoritarian regimes), and made better use of these lands than Poland did.
    Poland was only democratic between 1919 (the Legislative Sejm convened in February that year) and 1926 (the May coup d'etat staged by supporters of Piłsudski), after that it slid into economic crisis triggered by the "competent" supporters of the autocratic regime.

    Czechoslovakia was literally fucked... with Germany and Austria to the northwest, west and south, monarchist (and pretty nationalist) Hungary and Romania to the south and east... and the soft, dirt poor autocracy in form of Poland to the north.
     
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  7. Ilia Panov aka Weeper

    Ilia Panov aka Weeper Well-Known Member

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    Do you see him as a threat as a person with whom it is impossible to negotiate? What? When did you try to agree on key issues with him? At least one example. How did your countries influence Zelensky when he refused to comply with the Minsk agreements? Or do you think patting on the back and sponsoring his army helped the negotiation process for the last 8 years? You exclusively broadcast hypocritical slogans about democracy, and do not try to discuss the problem.
    The dialogue is something like this
    - We're a little concerned about your dog shitting on our lawn. Could you somehow influence her, or at least clean up after her shit?
    - We understand your concern. But this is a free dog brought up on democratic values. And so she can shit wherever she wants. And you yourself will clean your lawn, it's yours.
    - But the dog is yours. Can't you train her?
    - Ours, but as we have already said, it is grown on democratic values, so it is free to decide for itself.
    - But she doesn't just shit on our lawn. She bites our relatives who come to visit.
    - She is a free dog and if she wants to bite, why not.
    - Well, if she likes to shit on our lawn, we are basically ready to put up with it. But can you at least put a muzzle on her?
    - How can you offer such a thing? It's anti-democratic.
    - Well then, I'm sorry, we'll shoot her.
    - It's not humane. Don't you think that animal rights should be respected?
    - Yes, we understand. But it is more important for us to have a clean lawn and that our relatives are safe. So I'm sorry, but we still have to shoot her.
    - Savages!

    It is true that the environment shapes consciousness. Full sensation that you live in a 5-dimensional space of time, and we here in 3-dimensional fucking cannot understand what you are talking about at all. Or vice versa.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2022
  8. vasco

    vasco Well-Known Member

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    If you want to talk military, let's go.
    (I wanted to avoid this, to try to talk on moral matters.)
    Also @hugo baskervill , since rgreat answered your post.

    Russian army has lost many times more equipment and soldiers. Check out open sourced data by onyx, on the web.
    The number of killed Russian troops is estimated between 8000-12000. Putin is hiding these figures, of course.

    This is just Putin's propaganda. Any military person is aware of this, but these suckers feed on it like candy.
    There is no point in setting up defence around a kindergarten, since there's nothing to defend there. City defences are around key access points and in places where an ambush can be easily set - tall buldings and tight spaces - the reason is that the defenders can cross from building to building (through mouse holes) and the tanks can't raise their guns high enough to target the higher floors (especially Russian tanks). Also, targeting a tank from above is better (thinner armor).
    You can hang around a kindergarten all day long, but it's not going to win you the war.
    Add to this the fact that Russians have already bombed schools, kindergartens and hospitals without shame.

    The Russian advance has stalled. Logistical, strategical and tactical problems. Shitty management and corruption from top to bottom. The 40miles long convoy was left out of fuel, food, ammo. They're abandoning their vehicles. The Ukrainian army has captured more Russian vehicles than it has lost during this war.
    Today the Russians even retreated away from Mikolaiv, but elements got into Mariupol, which was sieged for weeks (let's see how they manage there).
    Shoigu is clearly shitting his pants. He's the minister of defence since 2012. Although he's wearing an uniform, he's not an army man. During his mandate a lot of modernisation and maintenance money was stolen. Generals and politicians bought yachts with those money. Ever heard an admiral stealing a warship's propeller? It happened in the Russian navy. Bronze propellers are very expensive.
    Thanks to Shoigu, Ukraine can now hold against the Russian army, I'm not sure about the guy's life expectancy at the hand of Putin now.

    The situation now is a stalemate, and while that isn't at all comfortable for Ukrainians, since the population is suffering hugely, they have no choice. While for Putin the hard part is just starting - not sanctions, but missing boys, that don't return home. There are more and more mothers of missing soldiers at the protests. It will be difficult for any law enforcer to silence them (even if Putin won't give a fuck). It will be more and more difficult to hide the scale of the disaster.
    The Russian MOD has placed hiring announcements in certain cities. How long until compulsory conscription?
    Lavrov's plane, on it's way to China, has returned to Moscow at about mid-way.
    Then, after the Biden-Xi talks of today, Xi declares that a war in Ukraine is not in China's interest.

    Putin hasn't much more to go. The only hope is that that madman doesn't order a nuclear strike with his last breath. The hope is that the militaries will disobey, thus saving the Earth (and it wouldn't be the first time).
     
  9. rgreat

    rgreat FH Developer

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    We will see.
    2-3 month for complete control over East/South Ukraine.
    3-6 months for Central.
    Not sure if there will be goal set for west Ukraine. It could be either very fast or slower progress. Depends.

    Or it could end earlier if Ukraine agrees to our terms.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2022
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  10. vasco

    vasco Well-Known Member

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    No matter what Ukraine will do, the International Court at Hague has opened a case against Putin for war crimes. This means that even if Ukraine capitulates, Putin will be judged. If found guilty, he will have to serve time.This means he won't be able to travel anymore. Also the sanctions will not be able to be lifted - no country will want to have a relationship with Russia anymore.
     
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  11. hugo baskervill

    hugo baskervill Well-Known Member

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    We were not believing that someone in 21. century is willing to deploy full scale military operation against his neighbor, that's all. We were wrong and now we see ourselves vulnerable.

    As for trustwortiness, especially Lavrov is well known as a liar in western countries. Years of lying about "we have no troops in Luhansk, we didnt shoot down that civilian plane, we are making excercice with belarussia." So that is why absolutelly nobody trust Putin as a leader who speaks the truth. And agreement with liar is worthless.
     
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  12. hugo baskervill

    hugo baskervill Well-Known Member

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    True true, this is real estate of our diplomatic relationship :/
     
  13. rgreat

    rgreat FH Developer

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    Heh. All these constant wars in the world are to far away?

    Saudi vs Yemen = neighbor or not?
    Yugoslavia invasion was not so long ago. Right at your doorstep.
    Georgia attack on South Ossetia and Russian peacekeepers?
    I can continue.

    It must be nice to live in a brightly lit fantasy land. :confused:
     
  14. rgreat

    rgreat FH Developer

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    It is now. :(
     
  15. hugo baskervill

    hugo baskervill Well-Known Member

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    Not our neighbor :D

    So now You understand, why Europe feels vulnerable and threatened
     
  16. vasco

    vasco Well-Known Member

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    Check out Mannerheim's memoirs. (the Finnish marshall and politician)
    The negotiations with USSR at that time were exactly like the ones today. The Russian politicians have always broken their agreements.
     
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  17. rgreat

    rgreat FH Developer

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    You start to feel just like we did all these years.

    I'll skip USA/NATO vs USSR confrontation and older history.
    Let's only talk modern Russia.

    I guess it all started when USA and UK supported Chechen terror and insurgency in our country in 1990-s. But we managed.
    Then NATO bombed our closest ally in Europe and started expanding to the East.
    Then USA scrapped military agreements and started to build up radars and missile bases in East Europe.
    Then NATO scrapped military agreement on army restrictions in Europe.

    The west organized an anti-Russian coup in Georgia.
    USA openly trained, supplied and supported Georgia to attack Russia.
    USA and EU organized a Nazi anti-Russian coup in Ukraine. Twice! In 2004 and 2013/14.
    West directly funded and supported our opposition and helped to organize riots in our country.
    West organized a coup in Belorussia. Our ally. Luckily they failed. Barely.
    West organized a coup in Kazakhstan. Another our ally. This time we intervened and the coup failed.
    Many years USA/EU/NATO openly trained, supplied and supported Ukrainian army to prepare for war with us.
    It is even come down to Zelensky vows to develop nuclear weapons!

    We had enough.

    Would not be just easier and more productive to listen to our concerns and proposals for the last 15+ years?
    To be friends and partners?
    But I guess USA choose to contain/destroy Russia with European hands and NATO/EU blindly followed through.
    And now WE are "uncivilized barbarians". Right.

    But Russia seen all of this before. Century after century, you do not change.
    West politic = hypocrisy.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2022
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  18. Ilia Panov aka Weeper

    Ilia Panov aka Weeper Well-Known Member

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    And we did not think that in the 21st century someone would force us to do this.
    Lavrov Liar? God... how can you soak up all your media bullshit with no filters at all?
    Not one of his words at the moment he spoke was a lie, not one. An independent investigation of MH-17, which was not allowed to participate investigators from Russia or China?
    btw ask the Romanians if they had some doubts about the MH-17 after the brave Ukrainian military shot down their fighter and helicopter over Romanian territory... We got acquainted with this property of the Ukrainian military back in 2001 using the example of Flight 1812.

    What a way to teach us. The burden of the white man haunts?
    Against the background of your naivety, I begin to feel paranoid obsessed with conspiracy theories))))
     
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  19. Ilia Panov aka Weeper

    Ilia Panov aka Weeper Well-Known Member

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    An example of your democratic values that I encountered today.

     
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  20. hugo baskervill

    hugo baskervill Well-Known Member

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    Well, maybe me and You listen different Lavrov :D As for I can say about what he said to us he is liar. Maybe he is telling true to You