Ukraine

Discussion in 'Warbirds General Discussion' started by vasco, Feb 21, 2022.

  1. vasco

    vasco Well-Known Member

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    Or maybe they're all generals in the Russian army. :D
     
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  2. mcgru-

    mcgru- Well-Known Member

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    in late 1990th, nationalist radicals attacked (w/o weapon) military stuff of RF Black Sea Fleet (BSF) in Sevastopol. At that time Russia has an agreement with Ukraine to lease the land of Sevastopol for BSF (until something like 2020).
    In 2014 nationalists overthrown government and declared the way turn to NATO and to expel BSF from Sevastopol.
    What do you think - how long Sevastopol bay will stay alone without any fleet in them? While banderlogs goverment needs a lot of money due to their way to devastate 50% of economics of Ukraine.
    USA of course will propose to lease Sevastopol bay for ~50 mlns/year (for example) - and banderlogs would be very glad to deal on it - and here you are: NATO could be landed in Crimea with an ease.
     
  3. hugo baskervill

    hugo baskervill Well-Known Member

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    Andrei Sukhovetsky - 7th airborne division
    Vitaly Gerasimov - dont know the position, headshoted while making speech
    Andrey Kolesnikov - 29th Combined Arms Army
    Oleg Mityaev - position unknown
    Magomed Tushaev - chechen warlord

    These are other five... RIP
     
  4. hugo baskervill

    hugo baskervill Well-Known Member

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    I understand why You annected Crimea. It was strategic desission to stay in Sevastopol (although I dont believe NATO needed Sevastopol as a base, as i said we have ehole turkey).

    But I strategically dont understand current invasion. Yes, politicaly, to send signal to NATO and Ukraine, but otherwise it has no strategic point. You united NATO and start to thinking about serious investiments in military (no, NATO actually dont have power to even military help Ukraine). And You pissed the Ukrainansso they will want to join EU (past days Ukrainans though about russians as a brothers)
     
  5. vasco

    vasco Well-Known Member

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  6. mcgru-

    mcgru- Well-Known Member

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    1. distances to ~Rostov from Turkey much farther than from Sevastopol
    2. Naval bases in Turkey or Romania are not so effective in case of existing BSF in Sevastopol.
    Russia has another base in Novorossiysk, but that bay is not so comfortable and it will not accomodate full BSF, so some ships sould be sent to another Fleets (NF, POF) making naval forces weaker.
    So Russia strategically needs BSF to be deployed in Sevastopol. Forever.

    That's not about nuclear attacks only.
    Current russian space military fleet is not so massive as USA's or GB's ones.
    So not everytime Russia has possibilities to monitor ground activities (preparation on attack) - there are 10-20-minutes gaps between spy space observer gets over target land.
    Within that duration, in case of base in Turkey or Romania, it is possible to covertly prepare, but started rockets will need to take 15-20 minutes to achieve russian sensitive regions - thus we still have some time to became prepared for attack and answer on it.
    In case of NATO naval base in Sevastopol (then who will interfere to deploy NATO base in somewhere nothern-eastener, closer to Russian border? nationalists in Kiev's government?), there will be still time to covertly prepare rocket attack, and the time of rocket on march will be shortened to 4-5 minutes, making it more hardener to monitor, intercept and response.
     
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  7. mcgru-

    mcgru- Well-Known Member

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    That is the main difference between us :)
    we still remember and esteem victories and mourn on lives losses for battles past in last 100 years.

    btw, we are calm on battles that were held 1000 years ago.

    the question: how long should we "remember" the price of wars against our countries?
    afaik, nobody can answer this.
     
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  8. vasco

    vasco Well-Known Member

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    There are no missiles in Romania that can target Russian territory.
    None.
    At the Deveselu base, on the Romanian territory, there are only interceptors.
     
  9. Ilia Panov aka Weeper

    Ilia Panov aka Weeper Well-Known Member

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    Stinger? STINGER!?????? LMAO... I'm done with you.
     
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  10. mcgru-

    mcgru- Well-Known Member

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    +100500

    also,
    Russia needs Poland, Czech, Slovak, Germany and other EU to be a trade partner!
    But trading is very difficult between enemies, thus Russia needs them to be at least as neutral.
     
  11. vasco

    vasco Well-Known Member

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    That's only because you have no idea what are the weapons deployed in Ukraine now. And probably you have no idea of the weapon systems in general.
    There are no systems that could target a low flying heli from hundreds of kilometres.
     
  12. mcgru-

    mcgru- Well-Known Member

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    we remember words of some nazi leaders (probably a fake from "17 moments of spring" movie):
    those who say "Heil" or rise up right hand in Hitler's greeting style with no matter how long it will pass in oblivion - know, at that point, with those people - we shall rise again and start again our rebirth of Third or Forth Reich and we shall march throw the world again!

    So, we are very sensitive to such demon-strations.
     
  13. mcgru-

    mcgru- Well-Known Member

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    ...

    to denazify,
    to demilitarize,
    to make new government that will agree with Russian Crimea and that will never count Russia as an enemy.
     
  14. vasco

    vasco Well-Known Member

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    Why?
     
  15. mcgru-

    mcgru- Well-Known Member

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    Dear Hugo, let me explain shortly what were the 1990-ties to the former soviet citizens.

    USSR had a 2nd economics in the world. Now USA and China has 20 trlns of GDP each. Let's count that USSR had 15 trlns of GDP in current prices and the correspond capitalization of all USSR's enterprizes had the almost same value: 5-10 trlns of dollars.

    In early 1990-ties CIA agents were incorporated into russian government and via some persons (Gaidar, Tchoobais, etc) they affected on strategic economical decisions. They forced our USSR's economic to collapse , then ruined prices on all enterprises via "shock therapy", and in that very unconfortable for former USSR citizens conditions they made auctions on enterprises and mineral fields leases. Thus USA and EU globalists had "bought" 25% of all USSR/Russia economy/minerals for a few billions dollars, at the prices of 1000 times lesser than resources really cost.
    So, "you can buy resources" is true for the case of very low prices - that's true. But what about to buy them at real european prices?

    Also, the last facts on NothernPipe-2 says that you are NOT READY to buy resources - the USA prevents, the insane Ukraine and EU politics prevent too.

    But Russia's resources (1/7 of all Earth's planet's territory) are necessary to the world.
    So what should we think on how long to wait for "good prices from USA+EU" and "goodwill to buy via NP2"?
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2022
  16. mcgru-

    mcgru- Well-Known Member

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    Ilya, very good videos!
    thank you for them (some of them i've ssen the first time)
     
  17. -frog-

    -frog- Well-Known Member

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    That Russia had a just cause to invade Ukraine I guess.
    No atrocities or genocide found in Donetsk and Lugansk over the past 8 years by OSCE... apart from cases where the separatists brought heavy gear in the area.
    No stockpiles of chemical weapons (what a dumb explanation, especially ever since the U.S. invasion of Iraq - you should have learned from dumb Amies, instead of repeating their error).
    No traces of atomic weapons.

    That Russian forces only attack military targets.
    This was the case in the first two days of invasion.
    Now that you've almost completely ran out of precise munitions, your military is making blows blindly, shelling residential areas on purpose - to terrorize civilians, killing hundreds of civilians every day.

    That Russian army is moral and the Ukrainian army is a bunch of nazis.
    It's the other way round.
    Your army is demoralized and sometimes even unwilling to fight.
    After the Chechen bandits you brought in got serious beating, they were withdrawn to the rears to catch and kill those trying to defect.
    There were also reports of rapes and intentional killing of civilians (even in cars marked "children", or "press") - quite scarce, and reports of pillaging and robbery - very numerous.
    Your army failed considerably, and your logistics are rubbish, so no wonder they loot convenience stores to get something to eat (something that is fresh and not 7 or 10 years past its "best before" date - as some of your army's food rations were - probably due to widespread corruption in the armed forces).
    On the other hand the Ukrainian army proved to be steadfast, even with the huge losses it sustained.
    The Ukrainians are highly motivated, but most of all they demonstrate their elastic approach, ingenuity and bravery.
    Your leaders thought that it would be a walk in the park, now the park turned into hell.
     
  18. mcgru-

    mcgru- Well-Known Member

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    1. no, because this joinment will affect safety of Russia.
    2. no because there is no threat to it from Russia (and other non-NATO countries)
     
  19. mcgru-

    mcgru- Well-Known Member

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    LOL :)
    "if mountain does not go to Magomet, then Magomet goes to mountain" :D

    Putin has a lot of places to visit :)
    (as we say: to do the shit on Hague from the highest bell tower)
     
  20. mcgru-

    mcgru- Well-Known Member

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    but USA told "stop NP2" and EU (Germany) stopped it... USA told to increase defense spendings - EU increased... is that really different subjects?