flaps: not bad sight mount: cannot understand you now. before that you tried to improve forward-down observation, now you millimetre by millimetre make it worse even after i ceased critics. now you redesigned lower part of armoured glass. or you marked the scheme of the mount?
Here is the style I used but, I see your point now. The latest version available for P-38J and later is what I just spent some time editing for the WB setup. There are a couple different styles. The one above that I circled, and the one here below that I used: Some pilots didn't even have gunsights in their planes on the early models from what I understand. Ok, here we go. I think this will work well for what we need that is accurate to the actual gun sight, minus the cross hair and circles that were displayed in real life. I'm pretty proud of how the gunsight turned out. I used what came in IL2 Simulator. There isn't a mount visible in this version because you couldn't see the mount in real life looking straight on due to the design of the mount. And believe it or not, but these last images are from an ebay auction where someone is selling a P38 gunsight! $1,000. I would buy that gunsight but, can't really justify what I would do with it. On the flaps, let me know what you don't like about it. I don't really like how it turned out either but, I need some input.
Taken from this topic.. 75% power loss? IRL? I don't think so. In WB, I think so. It's already flying below military power with 87% throttle performance results so, in single engine flight it's made worse, and WEP does not help. Try flying a P-38 on one engine. Quite difficult. Don't believe me? When you can, come and fly with me sometime in TA. It barely maintains altitude, constantly losing altitude. And this is at 160 MPH. It is capable of single engine flight above 120 MPH in IRL. Remember, they designed the P-38 to be able to function on one engine; IE: Barrel rolls, climbing, level flight. I hope this can be modeled correctly here.
I tried that in the TA just a short while ago myself to make sure! Have to remember that right now the P-38's are operating under 87% power IRL while in WB at 100% throttle setting according to my evaluations. This is something I'm trying to get exec, fas, gil, and the other devs to understand.
let's make this way: P-38H, J, L FH100% = 2600rpm, 54inHg (IRL 5min limit) FHWEP = 3000rpm, 60inHg (IRL 15min limit) i'm researching engine regimes for P-38F, G currently
Names, please Why not 5 or 15, or mb 25, are u sure about 10? Mb i want +25mph with wep! I mean source, please, with speed at military power and speed at "military+wep", that is 10mph more. For example, P-51D really had WEP over military power, its speed/climb at this WEP are measured during trials and fixed in reports, nothing like this for P-38. But speed at military power is measured at all altitudes below and above 20 kfeet, so it was surely possible to use military power all the way from ground to 20 kfeet. But during climb trials P-38 was able to hold military power only for 5 min IRL, why should it be able to hold it infinitly long at FH, and why 190A4 (for example) should not? Oh, almost forgot, what climb do u offer for P-38f (and others) at 1 engine? Now 1 eng F makes about 5m/s at 200 mph. Limits are looking strange, vice-versa?
No, what I was saying is that, IRL, you lose an engine, you lose 50% of your total power, but you lose something like 80% or more of your flight performance in something like a Beechcraft Duchess. The P-38 has significantly more power, and significantly less drag than the Duchess, so I would expect something like 70% or so maximum possible performance loss (this is a very generous loss of performance IMHO), but since I don't have good dope on the FH P-38, I can't figure things like minimum power required for level flight, which makes it harder to figure out what any performance of the P-38 is. From what you were saying, it seems to me that a P-38 is more than capable of flying on one engine (i.e. they built an airframe where the MPLF can be more than adequately produced with one engine). This may be true, as the P-38 was one of the slickest planes out there (i.e. had a very low drag coefficient), and it had a fairly high lift to drag ratio because of it. I think I saw a value of 13.5 out there somewhere, and I'm not sure the FH P-38 has this feature. It means that if a grid square is 20 NM, from 10k ft a P-38 should be able to glide that distance before ditching. The last time I had to do that, I think I got 2/3 of a grid from 15k ft or something. It was such a long time ago, though.
zero, Ki, j2m, tempest, typhoon, F4u, La, P40 to name a few. But, I'm focusing on the P-38 at this point. Not sure where you are going with this but, here is the information. I am sure about 10mph because of the data I found. Not because I just like an even number. Normal Rated Power: 2600 at 44Hg Military Rated Power: 3000 at 59Hg War Emergency Rated Power: 3000+WEP at 60Hg In case you can't see the text clearly, I spent some time cleaning it up so I could see the ratings myself. Here is the data. Well, tell me this....exec and gil....when did they turn off military power in the following documents while climbing from sea level past 36,000ft for more than 30 Minutes, at Military Power, 3000 RPM 60Hg and provide these test results?? Do you really think the USAF and Lockheed were trying to trick their pilots and WBFH developers? No, wait, WBFH wasn't around back then. And where are those climb trials showing 5 minute limits? This isn't about any other aircraft. I don't know why I must keep mentioning that. But, in any event, if you must, show me test results of the 190A4 that used military rated power from sea level to 36,000+ ft. I'm providing relevant information. P38F Climb Rates P38G Climb Rates P38J Climb Rates P38L Climb Rates And this is my favorite page to read....link or http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/p-38/p-38.html
I nearly missed that last response too. Well, sorry to say but, your test result for single engine operation is flawed. Need more info and maybe a track. Or, better yet, come fly with me sometime in TA and we'll do some testing.
Ok, this is data for P-38L, nice, but u compared 100% wb data with military for F, that is what surprised me, nothing above its military (it is 3000 rpm 47 inches) was mentioned in any report. http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/p-38/p-38f-tactical-charts.pdf so it seems it was F's high limit and it should be compared with our WEP. Its here: http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/p-38/p-38.html right at the beginning under ** sign. Yes, that is what i compared with WB trials, and our P-38f climbs even better than real according to this report, but not too much. Also there are only 2 charts for climb and 2 for speed, and higher one is for 47 inches at 3000rpm as table linked above tells. So we can discuss time limits for military power (i agree that climb is hard challenge for engines, and in fight it could be able to use military for longer time, may be unlimited at all ). But there is still no data about any more power and speed for P-38F. And IMHO F suck anyway (no maneuver flaps IRL) and we need to change it with G . I agree that our WEP should represent the highest RL power, not almost one, but for these planes our wep looks about ok with IRL 3000+60 iHG data, so the question is mainly about time limits for military and military+wep? Exec said he has manuals, where it is written about limitations, if something is wrong, will be fixed, i think.
We all know that you, exec and the others are working hard on P-38. IMO P-38 (all versions) will be the most exciting and challenging plane to fly at FH in the release. P-38 and FEW planes (not russian ones, that doesn't count since I can't read ) has a LOT of information available, and most important, shared. It's up to you to choose that u consider relevant and work on that. I really hope that all this information were available to all planes, the planes with 1000+ production numbers, anyway... I always thought C.202/205 were a shit, and I still think, like N1K, and some planes I really wish to fly and know better, not to fly the always in use Ki and Zekes, and Tempests..... Last time I flew MiG-3 most part of the TOD, I liked that a lot, mainly the 5 gun version. It couldn't excite me for more than 2FH months to keep flying that thing, and boa--- suggested me to fly the better P-39. OK, P-39 is a good plane... but an almost well KNOWN plane.... My point is: I really wish we could work hard on ALL significant planes like this huge work on the P-38. But I can't have this lot of info on Macchis, Ki, D.520, P-40.... They are and will be that planes "there".... They are there for you to choose, but IMO will never be a huge-reworked P-38 like
Maybe you guys could make a thread about them instead of crying about it in the P-38 thread? Back on topic, I finally got a piece of @#$% laptop to run the game, and I got some time in the P-38. I was fairly close with the performance loss figures if the S.L. climb rate is something like 3 000 to 3 500 fpm during normal operation. I managed 1 000 fpm climb during single engine operation using WEP. I haven't checked Vmca yet, but the idea is to shoot for something like 1.4*Vso. The regulations say 1.2, but I don't like fucking messing with the multi-engine gods. Here's some verbage to tickle your noodle with, so to speak.
Some date info: http://www.plane-crazy.net/links/p38.htm http://books.google.com/books?id=Xj...&resnum=6&ved=0CEYQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q&f=false
Concerning WEP influenced speeds, I know that data was for the L variant. I can look more into it concerning WEP on the F but, since it has WEP, the increased speed affects can be judged by previous/preceding engines I think. When I talked to a WWII recon (no guns) P-38 pilot at an airshow years back in Reading Pennsylvania at the MAAM airshow http://www.maam.org/maamwwii.html, I asked him different questions regarding speeds. I asked him about WEP and, he said he didn't use it. I asked why, and he said, "well, we didn't need it. we could outrun most any of their (German) fighters." In WarBirds, WEP is available to increase speed/performance. However, it is not correct to use military power + WEP to gain documented military power WITHOUT WEP. Top speeds in WB for the P-38s should be rated for standard military power without WEP. The standard Military power is 100% throttle, 3000 RPM. In WB, we set our throttle positions at 100%. There is no supporting data stating any danger while operating at 3000 RPM in level flight. Why? ........ All P-38 Lightnings were REQUIRED & DESIGNED to fly FAST when LEVEL. That was the USAF and Lockheed #1 priority. That's why they had what no other aircraft at the time had which was....a smooth flush riveted fuselage, two engines, and wing placements where they are. I found in operator/instruction/pilot manuals and other test data that fuel consumption was the primary issue during level flight. Extensive testing was performed to achieve the best performance vs fuel consumption. The result was 2600 and 3000 RPM as a standard. Engine reliability or overheating was NOT an issue, nor limit during level flight at these RPM rates and shouldn't be in WB. It's simple....in level flight, 3000 RPM only used more fuel than 2600 RPM. This should be the same for all the P-38s. So, 3000 RPM (100% throttle/military power) is acceptable for performance per design and documented tests. Climbing is a different area though..... I think climbing limitations on this page (http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/p-38/p-38.html) are not that serious, unless you plan to climb at a constant rate to 35,000 ft and over, then possible engine backfiring might occur. http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/p-38/p-38f-tactical-trials.html ......http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/p-38/p-38.html....... Endurance at Normal Power (1000 BHP per engine) at 20,000 Ft. 1.1 Hr. ** Time to climb to 20,000 Ft. 7.6 Min. ...... ** 5 minutes at 1150 BHP per engine, 2.9 minutes at 1000 BHP per engine. Normal Power (2600RPM/1000BHP): 2.9 minutes Normal Power endurance is 1.1 hour at 20,000 ft Military Power (3000RPM/1150BHP) 5 minutes Military Power (3000RPM/1150BHP) Time to climb: 7.6 minutes What does this mean? Easy. Carburetor air temperature issues. Speed is reduced more when climbing at military power, and a bit slower while at normal power. It wasn't a serious enough issue to cause guaranteed engine failure, only a possibility IRL.Stable controlled climbing was achieved at speeds between 175 - 235 MPH up to 20,000 ft. I look at it according to their test data: Carburetor air temperature is the issue, but not something you must overcome, unless you can program issues like engine backfires into WB which wouldn't really do anything. excerpt taken from this page: PROOF DEPARTMENT ARMY AIR FORCES PROVING GROUND COMMAND EGLIN FIELD, FLORIDA FINAL REPORT ON TACTICAL SUITABILITY OF THE P-38F TYPE AIRPLANE 6 March 1943 http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/p-38/p-38f-tactical-trials.html (3) It is not possible to climb the P-38F to thirty-five-thousand (35,000) feet at constant maximum allowable horsepower without exceeding allowable carburetor air temperatures. Constant exceeding of these temperatures will cause detonations and possible engine failure. 3. Conclusions: It is concluded that: a. For a general combination of climb, range, endurance, speed, altitude and fire power, the P-38F is the best production line fighter tested to date at this station. Types tested include the P-47, P-51, P-40F and P-39D-1.
The F was a decent plane and did not "suck". When it was DELIVERED, it was up to par with current fighters and better in many cases. Having said that, the P38F didn't have maneuver flaps BUT, the G did. So, we cannot take away the P38F's maneuver flaps function unless the G is in place. There is too large a gap in time between the F and J otherwise. ARMY AIR FORCES PROVING GROUND COMMAND EGLIN FIELD, FLORIDA SUPPLEMENTARY REPORT ON TACTICAL SUITABILITY OF THE P-38G TYPE AIRPLANE AS COMPARED TO THE P-38F 3 May 1943 Conclusions a. All conclusions and recommendations applying to the P-38F, apply to the P-38G. b. Inasmuch as the general maneuverability of this (P-38F) aircraft is probably the lowest of any type of current fighter aircraft, and in view of the competition facing the P-38G in the European Theatre, all possible effort should be made to improve its rate of climb and high speed. c. The P-38G turns much better than the P-38F (will close 180° in 360° circle) due to maneuver flaps. d. Buffeting was noticeable but at higher speeds and accelerations than in the P-38F. e. The P-38G will outzoom the P-38F. f. The P-38G will hold its altitude in turns at thirty-five-thousand (35,000) feet, whereas the P-38F loses altitude. g. The P-38G holds its advantages over the P-38F at all altitudes. h. The lack of sufficient intercooling holds down the performance of the P-38G as well as the P-38F. For more of this Report see HERE
Speakin of climb rates and the p38..I was online a few hours ago..I was the only red on and two golds were dudley and one other guy.. I was in a P38L and had just dropped 2 1000 lbs on the cv and killed it. I started to climb up and away and I noticed 2 N1K1s chasing after me..I was in a full power wep climb with 30 gas supply and climbed up to about 7,000 or 8,000 feet and these two N1K1s were following me..just for the hell of it I started climbing and climbing and I noticed these two N1K1s slowley gaining on me..they went from d9 to d8..d7,d6,d5 and then they started firing..I continued my climb in a spiral type up to about 13,000 ft or thereabouts and they continued to climb eventually they were at d4 and I was getting hit..a gas leak and so I went to flaps, rolled up and over and tried to hit one as I dove but I didn't have enough distance..we got into a loopy kind of dogfight but they got the upper hand.. These guys dudley and doodle seemed pretty determined to kill me..not sure why but maybe hitting my F5 key and sending an automatic "suck it harder bitch" msg on ch 100 for the previous 2 hours had something to do with it.. Since coming back my fighter pilot skills suck royally..but I have a pretty good idea of what happened.. Moral of the story? imo N1K1 is possibly best fighter plane in this entire game.
