37-40mm spread and rate of fire

Discussion in 'Warbirds International' started by gil---, Sep 9, 2010.

?

what to do with 37-40mm guns

  1. Reduce spread and rate of fire

    1 vote(s)
    12.5%
  2. Do nothing, they are ok

    7 vote(s)
    87.5%
  3. woodpeckers

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. gil---

    gil--- FH Beta Tester

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    A problem of compromice between warbirds' engine properties, realism and gameplay for 37-40mm shooting model was solved by constant spread relevant for burst. Tha main disadvantage of such model is that u don't have 1-st precise shot.
    Dew to engine limitations spread can't depend on burst length (like was IRL) and so adequate modelling is possible for only something one: precise single shots OR burst.
    There is another option: to make 37-40mm caliber guns as precise as their single shot (about 2 times less spread than now) and reduce their rate of fire (about 2 times too).
    What we choose?

    P.S. This is not about 50, 57 and 75mm guns.
     
  2. demian

    demian Well-Known Member

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    Personally I think we dont need those guns at all on other planes except cobra.
    I would take same gun cobra uses, mount it on 109G,K models, and i would remove 23vya,40mm, mk108. We would then have 37mm on P39, same gun on 109G,K ( same range and settings) , same 37mm on 110g, same 37mm on ki45 and on yak-T.
    I would leave 57molins on mossie and 50mm on me410.
    That is what i would do to once and for all finish that story about german mk108 and all. All sides would have equal gun which is imho more suitable for our game , its not so easy to shoot with , and need more than 1x37mm to shoot dwn buff. Just perfect to become new mk108.
     
  3. mumble

    mumble Well-Known Member

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    It depends on what happens with the jeep. If the jeep ack becomes less powerful and a little easier to hit with the 37/40mm, then I think it would be nice to just leave the weapons alone.

    Off-topic

    Just out of curiosity, why do we not have HE rounds for the 37/40mm? Is it because of the potential for abuse of bombers (e.g. kill bomber d18 with 37mm of P-39, or the usual 3.7cm of the Bf-110G model. :D)?
     
  4. gil---

    gil--- FH Beta Tester

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    I didnt mean mk-108 here, its only about loooong range 37mm cannons.

    Its just a bug from old DM, as i know.
     
  5. demian

    demian Well-Known Member

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    I know you didnt, you guys always invent something new so you could have another thing to fix. Dont fix what is not broken.I was talking about overall solution and you talk about 1 gun , just little segment of game. I didnt notice anything wrong with 37mm long ranged hits, in fact i like 37 mm and i suggest admins make all guns out of that one. It is better to have simple but good game than having fency nothing.
     
  6. looseleaf

    looseleaf Well-Known Member

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    Sorry but I don't think there is an correct solution to this complicated "situation".

    A center fire gun like in the Yak and P-39 (P-63 when it comes:D) should be

    more accurate than anything in a pod (and of course 109 but )


    One solution could be to have the real ammo load of P-63 , 58 rounds and leave all guns alone as they are. In my experience they are not that bad as is.

    Yes, jeep acks are just too hard to kill with cannon, rockets or bombs. Just not real.

    Yes, ALL 37mm rounds were HE in Great Patriotic War, 5 million rounds were provide by USA to Russia via Lend/Lease.

    So IMHO: center fire cannons more accurate than pod mounted.

    58 rounds in P-39Q until P-63 is released. (just my personal wish not to be considered- I am sure many Russian pilots opted for more ammo and less armor, those guys had balls of iron they didn't need any more iron in the plane :D )

    Otherwise just leave it as is....

    :alc:
     
  7. -exec-

    -exec- FH Consultant

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    very interesting!
    -am- said that most m4 shells were AP when he enjoyed his influence to -aike-.

    they are indeed on fh.

    soviet planes had armour back and headrest from the very i-153, if not i-152/i-16-10.
     
  8. looseleaf

    looseleaf Well-Known Member

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    Oops! Sorry, I cannot find my sources for the 37mm ammo, but here is something in print:

    http://www.marchfield.org/p39q.htm

    In any event Russia did NOT receive any AP 37 rounds, at least not for the aircraft as there were 37mm anti aircraft and anti-tank guns delivered.

    This source confirms no AP rounds and says there were 1.2 million rounds of 37mm HE delivered. So far I have found another source that claims 1.4 million rounds of HE only and no AP.
     
  9. -exec-

    -exec- FH Consultant

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  10. fas---

    fas--- Дремучий патриархал

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    All nose-mount 37mm cannons remade from 0.5 dispersion to 0.2,
    37mm in external gunpod 110g2, 110g2r3 - now have 0.2 to

    More. 57, 75 mm cannons (B25, Mossy) - also now have 0.2

    Next.I think that the P-63 in the game is not needed. The issue is not that the plane was bad or released in insufficient quantities. The question that he has not been applied widely available. Approximately the same situation with IL-10.
     
  11. looseleaf

    looseleaf Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like a good change.

    However I disagree about the P-63.

    Firstly, historically there were more P-63 than P-39, and P-63 was a joint design effort with Bell and Russia!

    P-63 is what should replace P-400/ P39Q in mid/late war in FH.

    Larger plane, four blade prop, with more power, more speed ,faster climb, more armor and 58 rounds of 37mm.

    Used mostly in the Pacific and 'unofficially" in the west. It was a significant factor in the war.

    IMHO....
     
  12. -exec-

    -exec- FH Consultant

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    pacific? do you have references?
     
  13. Red Ant

    Red Ant Well-Known Member

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    I think by Pacific he means the Soviet Far East, as stated in the Wikipedia article.
     
  14. -exec-

    -exec- FH Consultant

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    "far east"?
    there is one kill

     
  15. Red Ant

    Red Ant Well-Known Member

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    I wasn't agreeing with him, I was just telling you what I thought he meant. ;)
     
  16. -exec-

    -exec- FH Consultant

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    just trying to find truth
     
  17. looseleaf

    looseleaf Well-Known Member

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    some:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_P-63_Kingcobra


    "... By a 1943 agreement, P-63s were disallowed for Soviet use against Germany and were supposed to be concentrated in the Soviet Far East for an eventual attack on Japan.[citation needed] However, there are many unconfirmed reports from both the Soviet and German side that P-63s did indeed see service against the Luftwaffe. Most notably, one of Pokryshkin's pilots reports in his memoirs published in the 1990s that the entire 4th GvIAP was secretly converted to P-63s in 1944, while officially still flying P-39s. One account states they were in action at Königsberg, in Poland and in the final assault on Berlin. There are German reports of P-63s shot down by both fighters and flak. Nevertheless, all Soviet records show nothing but P-39s used against Germany.

    In general, official Soviet histories played down the role of Lend-Lease supplied aircraft in favor of local designs, but it is known that the P-63 was a successful ground attack aircraft in Soviet service. The Soviets developed successful group aerial fighting tactics for the Bell fighters and P-39s scored a surprising number of aerial victories over German aircraft, mostly Junkers Ju-87 Stukas and bombers but including many advanced fighters as well. Low ceilings, short missions, good radios, a sealed and warm cockpit and ruggedness contributed to their effectiveness. To pilots who had once flown the tricky Polikarpov I-16, the aerodynamic quirks of the mid-engined aircraft were unimportant. In the Far East, P-63 and P-39 aircraft were used in the Soviet invasion of Manchukoku and northern Korea.

    In the Pacific theatre, the Kingcobras flew escort, close air support and ground attack missions. The Soviet P-63s achieved their first air victory on 15 August 1945, when Lejtenant I. F. Miroshnichenko from 17th IAP/190 IAD, shot down a Nakajima Ki-43 Hayabusa Army fighter, off the coast of North Korea.[10] ( ^ a b c Gordon 2008, p. 452.)

    ..."



    http://ram-home.com/ram-old/p-63king.html


    repeated info mosty:

    http://ww2db.com/aircraft_spec.php?aircraft_model_id=227

    http://www.americancombatplanes.com/p63_1.html

    VERY INTERESTING :

    Conversations with N. G. Golodnikov:

    http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/golodnikov/part3.htm

    :D
     
  18. demian

    demian Well-Known Member

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    Here , I vote, Give LL that p63:dark: :rolleyes:
     
  19. looseleaf

    looseleaf Well-Known Member

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    :D