F6F5

Ok, as a hardcore 109 flyer for a stupidly long time heres the low down.


The 109 series starting from the 109E4 throught to the 109F4 combine good climb rates with good turning ability, the 109E tends to be heavy and not as responsive in roll rates as the later versions (upto the 109F4) but is still a respectable plane if handled correctly. The 109F2 & F4 increased roll speed and decreased turning circles over the 109E adding in the superb climbing ability and E retention mean you can escape most situations.

109G2 should have been the pinacle of the 109 series (as in real life) combining the handling characteristics of the 109F4 but with a higher top speed and slightly improved climb rate, handling and top speed excelling above 7K alt matching even the P47 series but losing out to them in dive speed and acceleration. However now that it's been downgraded the handling resembles the G14 (K4) and it's acceleration and climbspeed are similar to the G6.

Gx/R6 versions downgraded performance due to the increased weight and drag from the gunpods reducing the climb rates to 15-18m/s depending on alt, acceleration and turning abilities also reduced. Difficult planes to fly but rewarding if you maintain an altitude advantage. (particulary good against US CV planes)

109G6, runt of the litter, good top end speed but climb rates and handling comprimised (havn't checked to see if these fixed from last update though).

109G14 and 109K4, retaining the excellent climbrates of earlier 109's (and improving on them in the K4) with increased acceleration and top end speed. Pays for these increases in speed with reduced handling in turns and higher stall speeds making sustained turns a quick way to die.

All 109's after the E version handle well in dives with the speed upto 700kph, compression becomes noticeable above this with loss of response at speeds of 750kph. 109K4's acceleration in a dive is much superior to earlier versions and reaches compression speed significanlty faster than earlier versions which can catch out the unwary.


If I could do a graph it would be easier to explain but basically speed/turning ability/climbrates should all climb equaly in the 109's upto the 109G2 after this the speed/climbrates lines should start to level off but continue climbing and the turning ability line should start to drop. In FH currently these lines peak with the 109F4 with the 109G2 forming a dip in what should otherwise be a smooth performance increase in all areas.

As to the question of which single plane outperforms a 109 alot depends on the 109 and alot depends on the arena time. the P38J(without the compression bug) is probably the only red plane that most matches the 109's performance and against later 109's can outturn it, against earlier 109's the P38's acceleration in level flight can outrun the 109. (ignoring the UFO's as in the La5FN and La7 that is)

As it stands now though after the 109G2 comes out and until the 109K4 arrives on the scene the 109's can't compete well in the arena purely because of the fucked up La5FN. You reds would soon moan if we had the 190D in June 1943 and yet we just end up putting up with more and more crap.


Malino

 

-glas-

 

Odisseo: i apreciate explanation you tried to give me - if u would read my post carefully you would find it there together with question if you could connect this your knowledge with trying F6F3 in arena
biased - well it is very easy to have this feeling seeing you very very angry about my post having that "uber" attitude which glows around you in this case - no offense but if you had not agreed with my complaints, you could say "i don't think so, because... " instead of making fool of me for something i have not said

malino: very nice, agree, imho 109 series are the most correct of all planes made here at FH (with little exception of that Anti-G module of F2 )

 

Heres proof to tackle your claim about incorrect climbrates in 109. These are from FH tests. (there have been slight changes to g-14 FM after this chart was made ie. r6 has same critical altitudes than normal variant)


(g-10=>g-14)

 

And here are turnrates and radiuses from 1.50.

Код:

bf109e4        23.2 / 22.0         227.4
bf109f2        19.9 / 19.0         212.4
bf109f4        20,4 / 21,0         230
bf109g14       22.8 / 23.2         253.4
bf109g14r6     26.1 / 25.4         281
bf109k4        23.4 / ?            276.8

Seems g2 is missing. I notified it on beta forums so maybe someone tests it again,

 

illo, I tried again with the turnrates in a fully loaded 109G2 at 1K alt keeping to 3G's and holding the edge of the staff and in right turns I came out with an average turnrate of 26 seconds. No flaps.


Malino


P.S. I'm not moaning about the climbrate as I don't have a problem with it. The problem IMHO is the E retention in turns bleeding to fast so you stall unbelievably fast so the G2 is handling very much like a 109K4 without the big engine.

 

Here is a test ive done some time ago in 1.51ver on TA speed is TAS. Climb without wep,speed with wep.

yak1: climb to 3000m 16m/s speed 492 km/h

spit5 : ---------""------- 15m/s -----"---- 488

109f2: ---------""------- 19m/s -----"---- 500

spit9 : ---------""------- 17m/s -----"---- 515

yak9 : ---------""------- 18m/s ----"----515

109g2: --------""------- 21m/s -----"----530

I started in climb to 3 km then dive on deck and i checked airspeed that plane could sustaine. All planes 50% fuel.
As you can see nothing can outclimb 109 saying that p38 out climbs every gold plane makes me laught now. I checked the
climb rate and its aboute 17.5 m /s to 3000m speed
somthing like 545 km /h on deck,manuverability really shity . I ve tested it in dogfight. I flown 190 a4 light and my sq mate Snake flown p38 J and 190 eats p38 alive giving the lightning no chance.

Aboute f6f3 when i flown it i couldnt out turn 109 t1! It handels really hvy and i dont think that this is how this plane should fly.
F6f5 checked it too with Snake. Him f6f me 109 g6 and i won with no problems. We tested climb rate too,f6f cluldnt climb faster even with wep on (109 wep off)

Thats some stats.
I dont think that 109 f2 is overmodeled it was a uber plane of its time it is in here. And i now from my expiriance f2 or even f4 can turn with hurr2c and f4f.
What would be relly nice is making some more spits to conquare so many 109s . 109 g2 is less manuverable but got some extra speed on deck and propablly overall. Dunno if its right but this extra speed means that it can run from spit with no problems and in 1.42 it couldnt be done.
I just want to say that overall balance is as it should be. Golds rules the skies to 1943 till that time reds are only a mach ( for example p40 can turn as tight as 109 f2 but no chance in vertical)
from 1943 to 1944 is somthing like balance but la5fn is really missing as reds dont have a good plane for 190 a4. When g14 arives golds have advantage till march 1944 when p51D yak3 and spit 14 comes out. End of the war is for golds. So devlopers
have to fix some bugs but its no sence in saying that one side has only good planes and the other sux.

 

Malino: I have made test with g2 with 100% fuel right now, and my better times were 22s to the left, 23s to the right. I am sure it is possible to turn faster, as my rudder don't work and I wasn't able to fly coordinated turn.

Anyway, after 1.51 release, Lions were testing new turning ability in TA, where we were happy that 109f2 no longer easily outturned Spit Vc. I flew 109G2 against Spit IX, at 50% fuel both. 109G2 was worse than Spit IX, but the difference was very, very small ( I had rudder there . With slight changes to the altitude (no more than 50m+/-) and switching to the lag pursuit from time to time, it was possible to catch flat-turning Spit (and that was one of our most experienced Spit pilots). So I believe that times are around 21/22s with steady hand for almost fully loaded aircraft, and with less fuel it can drop to the 20s.

 

At deck spits climb much worse than 109s but at 5km its quite equal.

Check it with cs 165 for spits Vc and cs 155 for 109f-2 for example.

both are around 15-17m/s