OT: George Bush and Iraq

@ Everyone

I think everyone is definetely doing a great job keeping this discussion very intelligent and calm, and I just wanted to say this before putting my two cents in

Now, I am anti-war in this case.

My reasoning for my side/decision:
I do not think that this brewing war is about removing a dictator from power because he violates UN rulings and has WMD's (which i find ironic that the US blatantly ignores UN rulings and has WMD's itself. Nice little twist, don't you think?). I believe that this war is about a resource that the United States depends on, that being oil.

Yes, i know that Iraq does not have a great deal of oil, but what it DOES have is power over it's own surrounding countries and states, thus having control of oil itself. Iraq, due to it's military power (which I agree is large) has an influence over the exporting countries. Now, if Iraq is removed from power, doesn't the United States have a little more of a hand in the Middle Eastern oil stocks because Iraq is no longer an influencing power, and the United States is?

Now if in fact Iraq does have large stocks of WMD's, than I guess that my argument becomes void, because it relies on Iraq not having WMD's.

There are discernable arguments for either side, both with good reasoning, I guess I just don't want to see unneccesary war over resources with unneccesary loss of human life.

That's my spiel.

mike afi m
www.swindleband.cjb.net

 

Just one more thing, off-topic: As I checked how I could get into that at all because I did plan avoid that topic which you can find in numerous forums all over the web, I realized that I "managed" to do so with the words "Lobo, don't get into that too deep."

 

I am sick of hearing that the USA is in the Wrong for telling Sadam to disarm or its all about the oil.




Do we all remember where all this war talk started? Here try this for starters.

http://home.attbi.com/~sept11/

9/11/01 we lost Mothers, Fathers, Brothers, Sisters and Friends by the thousands and America Is going to make DAMN sure Rouge countries will never be able to do this again to America or any other country for that mater. Bin Asshole Laden has gone under ground but he will be caught sooner or later. Sadem and his lynch men or next and after that who knows. But If a country feels like bombing innocent people I guarantee they will be next Having oil or not wont make any difference.

Look at sadams history...If you agree with this fruit cake then go live in IRAQ.

Remember During WWII America was disliked for not getting involved sooner? Well this time AMERICA is taking the first Step so that the world can be a better place ridding the Trash in the world that holds NO respect to for everyday working people.

As for the "America only wants the oil" excuse, Get a life. If we wanted the Oil we would have done that the first time around.


If Sadam doesn't want a war he knows what to do to avoid it. I think disarming is a bit late but he has the option to leave Iraq and save his butt.


All I can say is thank God we have Bush and not Gore as Our president.

Sorry to rant on over this

 

http://www.milartgl.com/HTML_2/ground_zero_eagles.htm

<S>

 

It's Saddam, not Sadem or Sadam.
You should at least know who are you going after.

I can't see what Hussein has to do with WTC crash.

 

FACT: Iraq is known to harbor terrorists.

 

I had just about enough of this USA S#%it!

When Americans loose their Mothers, Fathers, etc... Than it's a world tragedy, and the US Army goes to war to avenge the innocent and to slay the evil "dragon"!

Only what righteous Americans cannot see on CNN, is that instead of the "dragon", USAF kills other innocents, but since they are not Americans then it's "collateral damage" and it is OK, for you were aiming at the "dragon"...

America has brought misery and suffering to countless nations in the past century, all in the name of democracy and the "american way of life". The price was high, but what do Americans care? They weren't the ones who had to pay for it.

All the time you can see films about (for ex.) WW2, and how countless american lives were lost...
Do you know how many US citizens were killed during WW2?
About 275,000 (maybe less not sure).

Do you know how many Yugoslavs were killed during WW2?
1,200,000!

To me, every life is equal in its value...

Ask yourself: is it for you too?

Do you know how many civilians were killed in bombing of Serbia in 1999?

More than 3,000...

That's 3,000 civilians, NOT soldiers, innocent just as people in the WTC.

Do you know for what crimes is Milosevic (who I hate, and want him killed, but not an issue here) accused?
He is accused for killing about 300 innocent Albanians from Kosovo, and banishing about 700,000...

Killed 300!!! WHERE THE HELL ARE THOSE MASS GRAVES US WAS SCREAMING ABOUT???


End game for Kosovo:
Albanians have created anarchy there, banished all other natons, drugs and people(women and kids) are being smuggled thru Kosovo, to be sold in the west Europe. Serbia is in economic ruin, because of the bombing... Balkans remains an unstable area...

Why? Because US choose to support Albanian terrorists who were fighting communist regime of Milosevic. Instead you could have given your help & support to Serbian democratic opposition, and overthrown that dictator.

But you didn't. Why? Do you know how costly is to transport BGM109s back to US for an overhaul? Do you know how much money your arms factories make with each war?

War pays off for America, and that's a fact you shouldn't easily ignore.

JUST THINK ABOUT IT (without the help of CNN for once).

I'm sorry, but, I seriously doubt the inteligence of a man who can say such a thing.

 

To be provocative:

Not only Iraq - but many other countries in this world harbor people or organizations who are defined by other nations as terrorists.

Including the so called civilized coutries like the USA, Germany, UK, France and so on.

If I am right even Sweden was accused by Russia to harbor chetchen terrorist leaders some months ago (or Finland ? It was one of the nordic states).
What next ? A russian assault on Sweden ?


Its a question how you define somebody as a terrorist or as a freedom fighter.
Thats also the problem, why there could never be an international solidarity against terrorist.
Because they define them in a different way.

Simple example:
In the 80ties the USA and the western block has defined afghan underground fighters like BinLaden and his Mujaheddin as noble freedom fighters who were fighting against the bad bad Soviet Union.
The Soviet Union and the Eastern block have defined them as terrorists.

Also in the 80ties Saddam Hussein was considered as an ally against the bad bad Iran and so he got from the good countries including USA and Germany the gas-production facilities.
And so he could produce gas weapons and use them against the iranians and against the iraqui kurds.
Iran accused Iraq of acting in a terroristic way by using gas weapons against civilians. But the so called civilized world under leadership of the USA ignored this.


So if you start to accuse a country of acting in a terroristic way or harboring terrorists it should be checked first if not your own country is guilty for the same insult.

And if the USA are consequent the first targets would have to be - considering the 9/11 terror act - Pacistan and Saudi Arabia.

These are the nations who supported AlQadi most before 9/11.


But no - according to massive propaganda the battered and ruined Iraq is considered as a major threat for the civilized world.
Thats ridiculous.
Even the neighbor-countries dont consider Iraq as a threat for themself. But the USA - the invincible superpower of today - far far away feels threatened.


Sorry if you dont understand that more and more people couldnt follow this logic.

 

how iraq treats its workers is an internal problem, actually. remember its still a sovereign country.
what about the poor homeless in US? thats no way to treat a human beign! lets invade the US! no its an internal problem.
not the best way to compare, but similar things happen. it just depends on your culture and how you see things.
you cant just go invading a country because of a leader's policies with workers. you can make diplomatic pressures, but no invasion. especially without world's consent.

my HO.

 

An intersting fact that is never mentioned in Western "democratic free press": in Autumn, 1998, Kosovo Liberaton Army was declared a terrorist organisation by US Senate.

Funny, isn't it?

Last summer US Defence Secretaty (definetly not just a dog's dick) stated that any Russian attempt to violate Georgian borders will result in a military responce from the US. Not a very popular fact too. He said that when Russian Federation tried to persuade Georgia to do something about Pankisi gorge, a terrorist base on Russian border, while president Shevardnadze said that Ruslan Gelayev is a "nice and honest person". At the same time US sent military instructors to help protecting Georgia from "Russian threat", therefore protecting terrorists.

I bet Russian reaction on war against Iraq could be much softer. Russian-American relations and public opinion turned hostile after 1999 agression against Yugoslavia. Unfortunately Yeltsin and his family were too busy hiding stolen money abroad to actually help Serbia against agressors, like we did in Korea and Vietnam.

 

FACT: North American United States is known to harbour terrorists.

I refrained from joining this discussion, but this is too much for me. US Department of State invites so-called "representatives of Chechen government" for consultations (!!!), and hires mercenaries who fought in Chechnya to work for FBI.

 

aMeRiCa is one of the only "Rouge" countries I know of in this world, in my eyes they dont follow there own rules, And this is the view of someone who lives in Canada. They should become more peacefull, like ourselves, we have rarely have had terrorist treats against us, and might never. USA should adopt a forien policy like ours, Like our government said at a press confrence "Bush is a moron"


also, If Bush just smoked some bud, and actully pullled his head out of his but, he might notice other things in the world, or America for that matter. Instead of making bonbs, tanks, guns, Spend money on thigs that matter?

 

FACT: so dose the USA and most other countrys
YOUR point IS ????

 

LMAO, Iraq is just the start. Ya'll better keep dem terrorists out of your countries or we'll be knocking on your doors soon.

 

Boroda,

Get Putin to do a deal with the US over the oil in Siberia, and we'll come in there and help ya deal with the Chechens faster than you can say, "Nosdrovia!". (Over however you spell it.)

I applaud your gov't on the action they took against the chechen terrorists in the Moscow Theatre. Talk about decisive action!

 

If I were drunk I'd probably tell you go... But I'm not. The reason why threats against Canada rarely happen is because the US and Canada have enjoyed a long standing friendship. And if anyone starts something with you, the US will proudly come to tha aid of our Canadian brothers.

 

TRY. I dare ya. LOL

The man has got to go. You can not rationalize this man because, "Similiar" things have happened in other countries.

Btw, what constitutes the World's Consent? 15 NATO countries are with us.
Is it possible to ever have the entire world's consent? Should we go ask Saddam if he gives us his consent to invade him? Should we ask the North Koreans? Should we ask the French, Germans, and Russians? (Who still do business with Iraq.)

 

you are very gay!

 

I`m always itchy to involve in politics thread

This is screenshot of Mr. Bush`es mailbox: